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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Marysville, WA
    Posts
    477

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    Thanks Ian, that was a great description of your process.
    Since you are shrinking down to single brood box during spring expansion, do you run into more swarming issues? Is 1 box enough room for the queen to lay?



    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    When you put your excluders on your hives was it because the conditions favored upward movement of the queen?
    I admit that the only reason I tried excluders was to keep the queens down even though I wasn't having that much of an issue. I guess I fall into that catagory of not using them correctly. I never considered the single brood setup before and can totally see why an excluder would be necessary.

    Mike
    Beekeeper? Shoot, my bees keep me!
    100 hives in Western Wa State

  2. #22

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    I do the same as Ian. Winter on two boxes, bring the queen down into the lowest box and put the excluder on.

    The bees are not swarmier, the opposite. Less pollen binding and less nectar backflow. Empty cells do not get stuffed to the rim with pollen, so the comb gets used optimally. All the nectar goes up above the excluder. You need to do this very early in the season to get it work properly. Before the first pollen rush sets in.

    This is simply efficient use of equipment. Less ressources used per hive and a bigger crop. The honey is more pure because most of the comb gets drawn and filled in the super, the taste of certain nectar flows is highlighted by this.

    Where I live we have a huge buildup crop and only trickling flows after that. Bees tend to build up strong hives. After the big flow ends, which is May(!), the colony eats up all the honey that comes in after that, scattering the brood all over the hive. I tried it for years without a queen excluder, but it simply doesn't work here without it. At least if you want to harvest some honey.

    Finding the queen is so much easier if you have to search only a few combs instead of all the 20 or more frames.

    I find 8 frame hives and smaller combs (Warré) working much better with an excluder than larger frames. Because large frames leave empty cells on the sides of thw broodnest and this attracts storing nectar and pollen beside the broodnest, which easily triggers backflooding of the broodnest. With smaller combs - or a follower board - the combs are brood only. No empty cells on the sides.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    Like Bernhard my management follows suit. Its interesting how everyone manages their conditions differently, yet very much the same.

    >>Mike:I admit that the only reason I tried excluders was to keep the queens down even though I wasn't having that much of an issue.<<

    That was the point I was making. Use the excluder to accomplish something or to manage an issue. If there is not issue, there is nothing to manage. Ask the question, why am I using it? This is the reason the "to exclude" or "not exclude" question gets so polarized. Beekeeper try to use them without any idea why they are using them. Once a beekeeper understands how to use them, many useful management options open up for the beekeeper. Then many of the disadvantages merely turn into details.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Marysville, WA
    Posts
    477

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    Point taken Ian. I guess I can be taught something. I just had to pull it out of you. Thank you.

    Bernard, thanks for sharing your process. It helps with my understanding (or lack thereof)

    I am looking forward to giving this a try this year on maybe a dozen or so hives. You both mention increased honey production and I'm always interested in that!

    Mike
    Beekeeper? Shoot, my bees keep me!
    100 hives in Western Wa State

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    861

    Cool Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    Best $$ spent. For every excluder that fails, will cost me an avg. of $100 a hive. 7 year avg. with excluder is 137 lbs.

    Ian, Your right about "You have to know how to use them". And maybe not all application will work for everyone.

    Queen Excluder
    Last edited by The Honey Householder; 03-20-2014 at 05:50 PM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,204

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    a qx is just a beekeeping tool. ya just have to know how to use it.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    Quote Originally Posted by mmiller View Post
    Point taken Ian. I guess I can be taught something. I just had to pull it out of you. Thank you.
    I love a challenge!
    cheers
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,698

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    Ian, the German(with respect), and Householder nailed it. Know how to use the tool. If you give the queen too much room, and you have not done your work to maximize populations, of course the bees will not cross an excluder, they have no need to. You will note that Ian and Ron(Householder), and the German? are using them to control where the honey is placed, and maximize honey collected by the HUMAN. 100 lbs of honey spread thru 3 deeps of brood is economically uncollectable by humans. The bees may have brought the same amount home, but we get 100 lbs less.

    Crazy Roland(also German)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: The 'queen excluder' synonymous with a 'honey excluder!'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Crazy Roland(also German)
    As am I !
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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