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  1. #41

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    I suggest searching for a treatment-free beekeeping Facebook group.
    Got your own forum at last! Can preach the gospel without any opposing views. Congratulations.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,509

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Right now, we're cutoff. The folks who put the rules together don't sell TF bees or queens.
    We? You sell bees or queens?
    Regards, Barry

  3. #43
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    No it doesn't. Time and again we meet 'treatment free' beekeepers who, it turns out, have been manipulating all along. When we try to talk about the difference we get clobbered and told its against the rules. We get told 'everything you do is a manipulation'
    What's against the rules? Name calling?
    Regards, Barry

  4. #44

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    You're far more likely to find a well behaved group of people serious about what they're doing and not interested in bickering.
    I finally got a replacement battery for my Solomon Parker Decoder Ring. I was able to scan the recent post and the quoted sentence translates to mean 'you will find only people who agree with Solomon Parker'.
    I would say it is a virtual pulpit but in a real world church the congregation can toss the minister if he/she gets out of control. I'm thinking more like a virtual cult.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  5. #45
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,509

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Got your own forum at last! Can preach the gospel without any opposing views. Congratulations.
    I see discussing fogging with oil is part of the TF forum!
    Regards, Barry

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    647

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    No it doesn't. Time and again we meet 'treatment free' beekeepers who, it turns out, have been manipulating all along. When we try to talk about the difference we get clobbered and told its against the rules. We get told 'everything you do is a manipulation' - (see D Semple above). We get told it doesn't work, can't work, that all properly experienced beekeepers know this.

    Its just that now its raising resistance that's the clear target.

    People who don't do resistance raising seem offended by people who advocate it. And that offence gets translated into disruption of any discussion.


    Mike (UK)
    Mike you've made your point about the importance of raising resistance now about a hundred times. Everybody get's it, it's not that we disagree with what you are advocating we are just bored of hearing you go on and on about it.

    Just for the record I'm about a straight up bond beekeeper also, but I've got no beef whatsoever with how anybody else chooses to keep bees and in fact greatly admire the commercial guys who do so much more than just play with bees.

    Don

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    My reading / participation in the treatment free beekeeping forum has been extremely limited precisely because I find that beyond transitioning to SC comb and the like, the amount of useful information is extremely limited in practical value.

    Having a goal of achieving and apiary that is treatment free, I'd hoped for open discussion of various means to get there, including things like the pros/cons of IPM or occasional use of "soft" treatments during transition to preserve a set of wanted traits in a genetic line until resistance to or tolerance of mites is expressed in that line.

    I found the hostility toward anything but the One True Way and censorship of any discussion of treatment of any form to be counterproductive and haven't bothered reading anything but a very occasional thread that appears in the "New Posts" page that sparks my curiosity.

    I think that the satirical comment above concerning a "virtual cult" is actually fairly accurate.

    I think that being able to think and discuss critically (not at all the same as just being critical and offensive) is important in both the process of discovery and development of effective practical management practices that are largely transferable over a broad range of climates and the ability to teach or pass what is discovered on to others.

    For these reasons, in its current form as it is currently moderated my answer to the question,

    "Is the division 'Treatment-Free' adequate to the task of understanding 'non-orthodox' beekeeping?"

    is

    "No, not in my experience."

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,320

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    >Where are you going to draw the line?

    What we need is the "Spartan" method of beekeeping. We will try to kill them and then breed from the survivors...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post

    What we need is the "Spartan" method of beekeeping. We will try to kill them and then breed from the survivors...
    And, you'd only need 300 bees to start with...

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,320

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    >And, you'd only need 300 bees to start with...

    Based on historical data, that might not work so well... you need survivors...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I'm thinking more like a virtual cult.
    I am continually amazed at the amazing traits that are ascribed to me! First somebody called me a good beekeeper, and now I have the personal wherewithal to maintain a group of kool-aid drinking knuckle-draggers who hang on my every word and obey my proclamations? And that group has over 180 people in it? They love me! They agree with every word that tumbles out of my mouth as if it were a jewel of highest price! And it's so amazing that I am able to do this entire thing without deleting posts (except for ads) and not removing people (except ad posters). No one argues with me at all! We even get to discuss FGMO fogging without anger (though the group agrees without argument that it is a treatment and therefore not worth pursuing). And this heavenly Facebook group exists entirely under the force of my will, a perfect treatment-free beekeeping utopia! Oh JOY!



    No, the problem with this forum is the people in this forum. That truth is self evident.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  12. #52
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    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    6,323

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    And it's so amazing that I am able to do this entire thing without deleting posts (except for ads) and not removing people (except ad posters).
    Hmmm.

    A few months ago you discussed a 'removal' from the Facebook TF group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    So I don't know what this five or seven year old queen stuff is about. Then again it's hard to get anything out of him before he gets shuffled off for language abuses. Had to let him go from the TF Facebook group.
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  13. #53
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Tim Ives quit. He thought the F word was okay to drop in conversation and I disagreed. I did not kick him out. "I had to let him go." And went he did. But I did not kick him out.


    But since you don't know the whole story, by all means, "Hmmm" away.


    No, the problem with this forum is the people in this forum.
    That truth is self evident.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Had to let him go from the TF Facebook group.
    Those were your words Solomon, not mine. "Had to let him go".

    Anyone who want to look at the original quote can click the little blue arrow in the quote box in post #52 to go back to the original post by Solomon.


    I understand not allowing abusive language in a forum. But what happened is what happened. Revising history doesn't usually get one very far.
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
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    5,113

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Yeah, that's what I said. He went. I had to let him go. Had to. Couldn't stop it. He was leaving. We had a parting of ways. I let him go. F-bombs. Never even told him to leave.

    Seriously?



    Sidetrack. Appropriate.

    The problem with this forum is the people in this forum. That truth is self evident.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,015

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Well it went pretty ugly since the embittered ex moderator with an axe to grind plus attitude problem chose this thread to attempt his comeback.

    And thinks it is his chance to steal the membership, amazed the current moderator has the forbearance to tolerate this behaviour.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,509

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    I will only tolerate so much. So far, it's mostly amusing. People tend to do themselves in and I usually try to let the process play itself out. I certainly don't want to be accused of censorship! If I see "The problem with this forum is the people in this forum." included in one more post, I'll be inclined to remove part of the problem.
    Regards, Barry

  18. #58

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    At the risk of censorship I will say....that anyone who goes through life blaming others for the difficulties in their life, whether it's the queen breeder down the road for failing hives or the citizens of Beesource for perceived bickering....that person is destined to a life of unhappiness without end.
    I actually hope you can find a way out of that pit.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    It's about resistant-bee-keeping.

    Remember fellas?

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,509

    Default Re: Is the division 'Treatment Free' adequate to the task?

    Noooo, according to Sol, it's treatment-free.

    Originally Posted by Solomon Parker I suggest searching for a treatment-free beekeeping Facebook group.
    Regards, Barry

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