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  1. #21
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    5,847

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    But nobody ever gave it a catchy name before. Or if they did it failed to stick.
    the guy 50 years ago didnt bring his idea to beesource
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #22
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    But nobody ever gave it a catchy name before. Or if they did it failed to stick.
    Yeah, I guess Dry Sugar Feeding is too vague. Ha, ha.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
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    339

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by JWChesnut View Post

    We simply don't have the summer super-abundance to create the Tim Ives-style towers. We have mild and continuing flow 11 months a year -- its a trade-off.
    Super abundant summer flow??? I failed to miss when that is. Most of my flows are from small patches of trees between corn fields.
    Mid July till late Aug is a dearth till goldenrod.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
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    82

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Interesting to hear how and when different beeks super.

    Just visited 3 yards today and the season is on. First big round of drones are all capped up, big build-ups of worker brood, and lots of pollen and nectar coming in. A few colonies seemed none to happy to see me. Hopefully we have a good nectar flow.

  5. #25
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    Aug 2006
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    Danbury, CT
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    2,887

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    But nobody ever gave it a catchy name before. Or if they did it failed to stick.
    MountainCamp didn't either. In fact he never even started any specific thread about dry sugar feeding, he posted pictures in other peoples threads and called it emergency feeding.... "MountainCamp method" spawned on it's own. If you run an advance search there are threads about dry sugar feeding before MountainCamp even posted anything about it...Which is likely where he got the idea
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  6. #26
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    Aug 2006
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    Danbury, CT
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    2,887

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Back to the topic at hand:

    I think most at one time or another try staking a supers as high as they can just for the fun of it, but it is generally not common practice. I personally like to pull and spin frames through out the season as it allows you to have various grades and flavors of honey rather then spinning it all together. But I don't have 100s of hives to contend with.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    45,889

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    >That's either a variation on a Busterism or a MacDonaldism. "Bees won't fill supers if the supers are still in the barn."

    Who are Buster and MacDonald? But yes, that was the saying. Maybe it was you who posted it before.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Who are Buster and MacDonald?
    Mentors of mine from NY. Michael Palmer knows them too. I'd attribute the phrase to Buster, as the person I heard it from first. Mac knows it is true too.

    "Do things when you can, not when you want to." That's a MacDonaldism. Such as now, when it is lightly raining and below 40 degrees and there is beework I could be doing.

    "Just because hives are tall doesn't mean they are full of honey." That's mine. There are folks who put supers on hives every time they go to the bee yard. Because, getting to the bee yard can be the hardest thing one does. So, since you are there you might as well do something productive. Putting on another super is productive. Plugged out supers indicate the lack of supers at the right time. And you can't always be there at the right time.

    These thoughts/adages are from a Commercial point of view and would be something a sideliner should keep in mind, but may not make any difference to a small scale beekeeper.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,989

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    MountainCamp didn't either. In fact he never even started any specific thread about dry sugar feeding, he posted pictures in other peoples threads and called it emergency feeding.... "MountainCamp method" spawned on it's own. If you run an advance search there are threads about dry sugar feeding before MountainCamp even posted anything about it...Which is likely where he got the idea
    Funny how things get named sometimes - But somebody somewhere called this particular practice the Mountaincamp method for the first time, and it differentiates it from other emergency feeding methods. It caught on and now just about everyone knows what you are talking about when you say it so it simplifies communication. That may be the point at which a word (or expression in this case) becomes a part of language - beekeeper jargon anyway. English teachers may hate it, but these things just happen without official approval.

    So... Tall hives - everyone should try it at least once.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  10. #30
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    "Everyone" w/in the beesource community maybe. Like any other name, for those who have some idea what it means, it's a short hand way to refer to something or someone.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #31
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    May 2013
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    North Liberty, IN
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    339

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    Back to the topic at hand:

    I think most at one time or another try staking a supers as high as they can just for the fun of it, but it is generally not common practice. I personally like to pull and spin frames through out the season as it allows you to have various grades and flavors of honey rather then spinning it all together. But I don't have 100s of hives to contend with.
    I do have over 100 hives. I surely don't drag pallets of supers with bobcat out for the fun of it. If you call putting full supers back on pallets in June, July and Sept fun. Then I guess you can say I'm stacking them high with a ladder for the fun of doing so.. Hives near orchards get a bonus pull in May.

    2011 I tried 10 supers on top of the 3 deep hives. None supered had all 10 filled, 7 was the average. Which is why I dropped back to using 7. Which allows me to super up more early. Whatever didn't get supered gets split.

  12. #32
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    May 2013
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    North Liberty, IN
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    339

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    When placing supers on. Super boxes are checker boarded (not frames). New super is placed at the bottom then drawn placed above. I dont get into the brood boxes. After looking at 100's of hives you'll see a average of activities of what's going on. Anything below average doesn't get supered and ends up getting split.

  13. #33
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
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    82

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    I think for SF Bay Area guys like myself - after looking at my own experience and hearing others - there's not much need to stack so tall. We get a good March, April, and May flow, but after that it slows down. The most I've supered (so far) is three mediums. I'll gladly take 100lbs averages on all my hives

  14. #34
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    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
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    948

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    We have a beekeeper In Oregon that is largely regarded as the "Johnny Appleseed" of Pacific Northwest Beekeeping.
    His name is Oliver Petty. He turns 100 this year.
    We had a meeting in the early 1990s where EVERYONE IN THE ROOM either learned directly or indirectly from him!!!
    Anyway, he and another fine fellow, Jim Elkins (that I ended up working for) in the 1960s placed a number of hive scales under hives in hairy vetch.
    One year they recorded a net gain of over 16LBS per hive per day!
    Think about that.
    At 16 pounds per day, the bees filled a medium super every other day!
    How could one ever anticipate or keep up with that in a large operation?
    The answer of course is to error to capacity side during a flow rather than to push her to the bottom board.
    Back to Petty and Elkins's study, the gain continued until the first day of rain when the graph flat-lined and then began a slow decrease.

    How many times have you went to a yard to pull supers and found them filled and capped solid in the top super and realized that you may have missed out due to lack of space?
    I have many times.
    If we have supers and a flow is on, I suggest that we error to the positive side of the scale.
    Unless of course you want 250Lb plugged out brood nests, which is your decision.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  15. #35
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    It's just about the same amount of work taking off empty supers as it is full ones, but they won't be full if not on the hives. So why would you ever store them anywhere other than on the hives?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  16. #36
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    Town of West Monroe, Oswego County, New York, USA
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    48

    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    When placing supers on. Super boxes are checker boarded (not frames). New super is placed at the bottom then drawn placed above. I dont get into the brood boxes. After looking at 100's of hives you'll see a average of activities of what's going on. Anything below average doesn't get supered and ends up getting split.
    Tim, The new "empty" supers have frames with only undrawn wax and/or pierco foundation, right?

  17. #37
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    Aug 2006
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    Danbury, CT
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    There is a more efficient way of doing things. In Spain they tailor their operations to the crop. They calculate max potential production per acre and put an adequate number of hives on that crop. For example a good locust flow can put out 2000 lbs per acre, so 12 lang hives with 2 supers each is an adequate number to maximize that crop.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  18. #38
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Are there any negatives to placing more supers on a hive than what the bees can fill? Is it common practice to use a QE if you are going to pile on a bunch of empty supers? If you did use a QE and say you put on 5 supers would they fill from the top or from the bottom?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Are there any negatives to placing more supers on a hive than what the bees can fill?
    Other then the physical act of putting them on and taking them off? Have you ever worked a monster hive? It is no fun. I would rather have three smaller hives collecting the crop than one that is 10 boxes tall and you need a step ladder to reach the top of.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  20. #40
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: Too Tall? - Stacking Supers to Silly Heights

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I would rather have three smaller hives collecting the crop than one that is 10 boxes tall and you need a step ladder to reach the top of.
    So would I. What I call a monster hive and what you call a monster hive could be different.

    I am trying to learn something. The answer I expected to my first question would be something like this: "Yes, the large empty space makes the hive more vulnerable to _______________________." Or just plain "No, doesn't hurt the colony at all"
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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