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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion_power View Post
    They are beginning to sound like an organization that absorbs public funds for the purpose of ...... er, well, absorbing public funds.
    Couldn't have said it better!

    Its been known that the research funding holds the place up in a bad honey year

  2. #42
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    May 2010
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    OT:

    Rainbow is saying they're 80% VSH at this time.
    I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that all their bees are at 80% they might have one hive at 80% they are breeding from dosn't mean the daughters are 80%.

    Also the queens they sell are open mated so its a crap shoot on what you end up with.

  3. #43
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    May 2010
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    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Nick, Roy is treatment free but you should ask him how many actually survive.

    The thing with being treatment free in NZ at this time is that it wont work with a single colony.

    The only way I think you could maybe survive treatment free is to split your hives frequently and run alot more than one hive that way as your hives die you will have your splits to replace them.

    You might not get alot of honey and you will have alot of dead hives and bees but you could probably keep your head above water.

  4. #44
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by frazzledfozzle View Post
    I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that all their bees are at 80% they might have one hive at 80% they are breeding from dosn't mean the daughters are 80%. Also the queens they sell are open mated so its a crap shoot on what you end up with.
    Unless you've been to their bee yards, I wouldn't be so discouraging regarding their ability to produce 80% VSH queens.

    As for the cost, that only takes a phone call.

    As for the comments about grants and funding received by Rainbow Honey to continue developing VSH genetics...

    It's a moot point when it comes to obtaining resistant stocks of any kind.

    Nick is going to need to layer his approach to keeping treatment free bees in NZ.

    Splitting is one good layer to keep things going. Starting with VSH stock is another.

    Since I tend to like 3 layers to TF beekeeping, maybe grease patties with essential oils (food grade) could be another.

    However, having a source of replacement queens (Rainbow) is critical to have with VSH/TF beekeeping because if you lose the VSH queen, she has to be replaced ASAP.

    By the way, I'm seeing that Rainbow Honey is an organic operation.

    Perhaps they would make a good fit with Nick's goals.

  5. #45
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Unless you've been to their bee yards, I wouldn't be so discouraging regarding their ability to produce 80% VSH queens.
    LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Nick is going to need to layer his approach to keeping treatment free bees in NZ.
    LOL. Maybe if you knew anything about beekeeping in NZ clearly you don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Since I tend to like 3 layers to TF beekeeping, maybe grease patties with essential oils (food grade) could be another.
    that statement is an oxymoron
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Clearly, Nick is going to try going TF in New Zealand.

    He's going to need some kind of mite resistance going his way. Splitting might not be enough.

    Unless there's another source of resistant bees besides Rainbow's VSH, it's the only game in town.

    You need more folks like Nick (and Rainbow Honey) in NZ to develop resistant stocks.

  7. #47
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    Mar 2014
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    Wellington, New Zealand
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    19

    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    I've just spoken with Rae from Nelson Honey (associated with the Rainbow Honey mentioned in the ODT article mentioned earlier, but NOT the Hamilton Rainbow Honey whose contact details are listed above - slightly confusing), she sells open-mated VSH queens for $51. She's sending me some more info about the current state of the project, which I'll post here. I've also directed her to this thread, so we might be able to hear from her directly.
    Last edited by Nick Spoon; 03-05-2014 at 02:45 PM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    So you called RH in Hamilton and they gave you the correct number?

    Oops. I'm sorry. But, I figured they'd know how to contact the other operation.

    I'm looking forward to hearing about their progress.

  9. #49
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    Mar 2014
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    Wellington, New Zealand
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    No I called RH in Hamilton and they knew nothing about VSH and didn't supply queens, so I figured I was in the wrong place, re-read the ODT article and worked out where they were, and googled again.

    Unfortunately I don't think I can post attachments here?

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Yes Nick please update this thread in due course for WLC's education.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    You're going to be doing a lot of that kind of digging if you're going to go treatment free.

    Just pm Barry with an attachment if you want to put one up.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Since I tend to like 3 layers to TF beekeeping, maybe grease patties with essential oils (food grade) could be another.
    WLC

    If you tend to like treating with essential oils, and treating with grease patties, as another layer to treatment free beekeeping, are you really advocating treatment free beekeeping?

    Heck if I judged myself by your standards, I'd just about be a treatment free beekeeper myself LOL
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    It's all food grade OT. Sugar, Crisco, and some peppermint. No pesticides however. I think the peppermint grease patties improves their disposition overall.

    Let's face it, you're just jealous because I can get BeeWeaver's in midtown.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Jealous? More curious. About how you say you are treatment free, but advocate treating.

    Not quite sure how that works?

    How much peppermint grease patties do you use to treat them?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Jealous? More curious. About how you say you are treatment free, but advocate treating.
    Not quite sure how that works?
    How much peppermint grease patties do you use to treat them?
    I wouldn't call peppermint grease patties a treatment.

    They're more like a 'Happy Meal'. An appetite stimulant/sedative.

    The bees consume only a small portion of the patty. I think they make the bees easier to work mostly.

    If you want to talk about LAB fermented syrup and milk as a possible TF issue, I've gotten pH readings indicating that the concentration of lactic acid is within the effective dose range.

    I'm food grade only. No. I'm not an 'orthodox' TF guy.

    For instance, since MAQs are now 'organic certified', I can see how a pesticide free TFer could justify using MAQs in an organic setting.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    No I wasn't raising the fermented milk you feed them as an issue.

    Just wondering how you call yourself treatment free when you treat. Other than the fermented milk, and essential oils and grease patty "happy meals", what other treatments do you give them?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    How am I a TFer? I don't use pesticides. I use resistant stocks.

    Just to be clear, while I understand the 'orthodox' TF philosophy, I won't be co-opted by 'forum rules' as a pesticide free beekeeper.

    Now, you can try to call peppermint grease patties a pesticide, but I think that's too 'orthodox'.

    Besides, I don't think they're a 'treatment'. I use them to improve the disposition of the girls. They just seem happier and more productive with them on.

    My bees, my call.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Just to be clear, while I understand the 'orthodox' TF philosophy, I won't be co-opted by 'forum rules' as a pesticide free beekeeper.
    Plain English translation. - Under the forum rules, you are not a treatment free beekeeper.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #59
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    Feb 2011
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    Franklin County, PA
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    I didn't see this mentioned but I figured that I would throw this in here. A fellow in my club had good luck with Russian queens. He did not claim that they are a silver bullet but that once he went to Russian bees his loss of colonies improved immensely. He got into Russian bees from someone that had some of the original Russian bees that were imported here by the USDA. That fellow was part of the breeding and testing program. Apparently that guy gave Russian queens out to all the beekeepers in a 10 mile radius of his bees so that his bee yard was surrounded by the Russian bees. It created a situation for him that resulted in no collapses throughout all of the colony collapse heavy years so the fellow in my club believed in the Russian bees as a bee that could do better with mites than other lines. Several other beekeepers seem to prefer Russian bees that I have become friends with. One of them has 6000 colonies. He said that he hasn't found a magic bee but that he preferred the Russian bees as far as positive survival results. I don't know if it is the hygienic behavior like they tear the cells open but rather I got the impression that the Russian bees groom each other more and perhaps swarm more so the swarming breaks the brood cycle and that helps as well.
    I don't really want to have to treat so I am hoping that brood breaks will be enough. So far my results this winter were not that good but I don't think it was because of mites. I will know better after this next year's winter. I am considering trying some Russian bees again. My first hives were Russian but I didn't know what I was doing and they didn't make it but it was my fault. I think I can do better with them at this point. 200 miles doesn't seem that far. If I were in New Zealand I would offer free assistance to Old Timer for an apprenticeship position in the spring and summer on the weekends or something like that if he would have me He has mentored me on line some and has always been 100% spot on.

  20. #60
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    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
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    Default Re: Treatment free with a single hive?

    "By the way, I'm seeing that Rainbow Honey is an organic operation"



    with 80% VSH queens I'm sure they want need to treat at all by next week

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