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  1. #1
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    dallas, tx, usa
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    Default German civil swarming laws

    Section 960
    Wild animals

    (1)Wild animals are ownerless as long as they are free. Wild animals in zoos and fish in ponds or other self-contained private waters are not ownerless.

    (2)Where a captured wild animal regains freedom, it becomes ownerless if the owner fails to pursue the animal without undue delay or if he gives up the pursuit.

    (3)A tamed animal becomes ownerless if it gives up the habit of returning to the place determined for it.

    table of contents

    Section 961
    Loss of ownership of bee swarms

    Where a swarm of bees takes flight, it becomes ownerless if the owner fails to pursue it without undue delay or if he gives up the pursuit.

    table of contents

    Section 962
    Right of pursuit of the owner

    The owner of the swarm of bees may, in pursuit, enter on plots of land belonging to others. If the swarm has entered an unoccupied beehive belonging to another, the owner of the swarm, for the purpose of capturing it, may open the hive and remove or break out the combs. He must make compensation for the damage caused.

    table of contents

    Section 963
    Merging of bee swarms

    If bee swarms of more than one owner that have moved out merge, the owners who have pursued their swarms become co-owners of the total swarm captured; the shares are determined according to the number of swarms pursued.

    table of contents

    Section 964
    Intermixture of bee swarms

    If a bee swarm has moved into an occupied beehive belonging to another, the ownership and the other rights in the bees that were occupying the beehive extend to the swarm that has moved in. The ownership and the other rights in the swarm that has moved in are extinguished.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Accomac, Virginia
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Interesting, probably dates back several hundred years ago.
    Ed

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Mifflin PA USA
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Obviously some where else that does not recognize strict Property Line rights. I think this is not interesting but rather absolutely ridiculous.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Chattanooga, TN USA
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Quote Originally Posted by The Valley View Post
    Obviously some where else that does not recognize strict Property Line rights. I think this is not interesting but rather absolutely ridiculous.
    I would think the title "German Civil Swarming Laws" would have been pretty obvious that this is from "somewhere else".
    Beekeeper since 2013. Read my bee blog at:
    http://harrisonbayhoney.blogspot.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Hartville, Missouri, USA
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    96

    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Most American law is based on English Common Law. Maybe someone here has a set of "American Jurisprudence" that they can look into for anything applicable to bee swarms.
    Hobbyist beekeeper since 2002

  6. #6
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    Jan 2011
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    Great Falls Montana
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    The right to pursue wounded game or your property across property lines were almost universally honored and I still claim it today.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2014
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    Mifflin PA USA
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    66

    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Edymnion View Post
    I would think the title "German Civil Swarming Laws" would have been pretty obvious that this is from "somewhere else".
    My reply wasn't questioning where, just making a point about private property rights.

  8. #8
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    ...
    Last edited by David LaFerney; 03-03-2014 at 08:56 PM. Reason: changed my mind about commenting.
    since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  9. #9
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Sorry, my prior comment was pointless.
    Last edited by David LaFerney; 03-03-2014 at 08:55 PM.
    since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  10. #10
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Everyone has the right to talk about whatever they want - until it gets moderated anyway - but personally i'd rather it be bees. I should just bite my tongue, but in light of the the steady stream of reports of Americans shooting one another for what amounts to bad manners - or less - I just can't hardly stand to hear what I am sure are probably good people talk about shooting someone over something so minor. I just don't get it I guess.
    since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Dayton, OH
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    61

    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Quote Originally Posted by homesteader824 View Post
    Most American law is based on English Common Law. Maybe someone here has a set of "American Jurisprudence" that they can look into for anything applicable to bee swarms.
    I just looked it up. There is no case in American law that I could find discussing property rights in a swarm.

    Keep in mind that German law is civil law, as compared to English/American common law--this means that a civil law country is much more likely to have very specific rules on the books about a given topic. Common law countries will have general legal precepts that will be applied by judges to cases with different facts.

    So, if you are chasing a swarm that you know is yours, an American court will be likely to apply whatever rules apply to loose livestock. If it's a wild swarm and there is a dispute about who owns it, there is a famous case that every law student reads: Pierson v. Post. The case is about a rich guy who is chasing a fox on horseback, but a old hillbilly sees him chasing it and shoots the fox. It's on public land. They start a lawsuit about who owns the dead fox. The rich guy says it was his because he had flushed it and was in pursuit. The court rules for the hillbilly. The legal rule is: if two people are chasing a wild animal, the "owner" is the one who restrains or captures the swarm; pursuit is meaningless.

  12. #12

    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Germany is the world champion in producing laws of all sorts. If you combine all the laws you find in all other countries, the German laws still outnumber them.

    Doesn't make the country more safe to live in. But at times pretty complicated because of all the bureaucracy.

  13. #13
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    Quote Originally Posted by mythomane View Post
    If a bee swarm has moved into an occupied beehive belonging to another, the ownership and the other rights in the bees that were occupying the beehive extend to the swarm that has moved in. The ownership and the other rights in the swarm that has moved in are extinguished.
    I don't understand this verbiage.

    I believe in NY if a pack of dogs is chasing a deer anyone can shoot the dogs. Hunting dogs must be trained if used in the woods which means they are under the control of the owner at all times. If the owner cannot call off the dogs running down a deer the dogs are free game no matter who's property they are on. This is what I have been told so I don't know if it is true or not.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #14
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    This has wandered off into TG material.
    Last edited by Barry; 03-04-2014 at 10:35 AM.
    Regards, Barry

  15. #15
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    May 2003
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    Farmington, New Mexico
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    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    A 3-minute search turns up the following:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=wK1...%20law&f=false

    It appears that the OP quotes are from "The Civil Code of the German Empire, 1896..."
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  16. #16

    Default Re: German civil swarming laws

    And still valid! Legally effective.

    See: http://dejure.org/gesetze/BGB/960.html and the following pages.

    Although nowadays nobody would make use of those laws...

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