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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,200

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    If there are bees in it before Winter and there is no activity in the Spring I assume the bees died, not that they left. Or do you consider your hive abandoned if it dies overwinter?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,546

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    I consider it abandoned if they leave even if they die in the process. I am making assumptions now, you are busy in the fall bringing hives from north to south. Where do you find the time to monitor these bees that are not in a lang hive when you are running like a chicken with its head cut off?

    Why do you feel my comment was so far off? Wouldn't the bees have a better chance of survival if they went in one of your empty boxes rather than pic a tree with a big gapping hole for a front entrance?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,200

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    Brian, if you and your wife both die, the State doesn't consider your house abandoned.

    Like a chicken w/ its head cut off? I don't do anything like a chicken w/ its head cut off. The tree is right in my front yard. I walk past it every day, several times.

    I don't know what you consider a big gapping hole and I don't think it matters a whole lot.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,546

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Brian, if you and your wife both die, the State doesn't consider your house abandoned.
    You sure about that? Who would pay the taxes?

    The tree is right in my front yard. I walk past it every day, several times.
    Last I heard tell you are not always home.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,200

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    That doesn't mean that my house is abandoned. I think that you and I have a disagreement as to the definition of the word "abandoned". Amongst other things.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,840

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    [QUOTE=Calbears94;1064075]I was putting out traps yesterday in a canyon with trails behind my house and I ran across a feral hive inside a large oak tree. Is there a way to pull them out

    Of course there is a way to draw them out.

    I also advocate letting ferals be ferals, (that is, don't destroy the feral site just to get the bees. There should be some other over riding consideration), but I very, very, respectifully disagree to "just leave them alone", or place swarm boxes and hope a swarm will move into your boxes. That method is hit or miss at best.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking a start from a colony if you want free bees. In fact, taking two or three starts each year. If you don't, they will likely swarm anyway. By trapping out starts you get the same results, except, guaranteed, and the only cost is the cost of a new queen and one frame of unsealed brood from another of your colonies. Leave the trap on long enough for the queen to come out and lay in the trap, then move the trap (or frames with eggs from the feral queen) let them make a new queen, and you have the queens genetics. During a good early honey flow, if you get the queen, it is still quite likely the colony will make themselves a new queen. I rarely take the queen, instead, if she is in the trap let her lay, then put her back into the tree, tank, etc, then move the trap.

    The traps are very easy to build from your own equipment, guaranteed to get a good start, does no real damage to the feral colony, and is a lot of fun, if you have the time. Biggest drawback is the number of trips you make to the trapping site. If very far away, the cost of gasoline becomes a factor. Once established, you can trap for years from the same tree, house, tank, etc.

    To each his own. I just prefer trapping over letting them swarm and not being certain that you entice the swarm into one of your boxes.

    cchoganjr

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,840

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Why does everyone say trap out? Trap outs of old hives are rarely successful at getting the queen so what's the point of stressing them out by removing their field force, .
    JRG13..... I very respectifully, disagree that getting the queen is rare. Several factors determine whether you will get the queen, but,it is not rare under the right circumstances.

    And, in my system of trapping you are not just removing field force. As soon as you install the trap, you get guard bees to guard the new entrance, cleaners to clean the trap and brood combs you supply, fanners to ventilate the new chamber. Then when you introduce the frame of unsealed brood you immediately get nurse bees, more housekeepers, wax builders, all the components you need for a successful colony.

    Putting out swarm traps are hit and miss at best. I prefer a sure thing. The feral hive may only swarm one time per year, but, managed trapping can make 3 or more new colonies from a single source each year. I have taken as many as 6 in a single season and the feral colony did fine that Winter and I trapped the following year.

    cchoganjr

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Dublin, California
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    [QUOTE=Cleo C. Hogan Jr;1066140]
    Quote Originally Posted by Calbears94 View Post
    I was putting out traps yesterday in a canyon with trails behind my house and I ran across a feral hive inside a large oak tree. Is there a way to pull them out

    Of course there is a way to draw them out.

    I also advocate letting ferals be ferals, (that is, don't destroy the feral site just to get the bees. There should be some other over riding consideration), but I very, very, respectifully disagree to "just leave them alone", or place swarm boxes and hope a swarm will move into your boxes. That method is hit or miss at best.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking a start from a colony if you want free bees. In fact, taking two or three starts each year. If you don't, they will likely swarm anyway. By trapping out starts you get the same results, except, guaranteed, and the only cost is the cost of a new queen and one frame of unsealed brood from another of your colonies. Leave the trap on long enough for the queen to come out and lay in the trap, then move the trap (or frames with eggs from the feral queen) let them make a new queen, and you have the queens genetics. During a good early honey flow, if you get the queen, it is still quite likely the colony will make themselves a new queen. I rarely take the queen, instead, if she is in the trap let her lay, then put her back into the tree, tank, etc, then move the trap.

    The traps are very easy to build from your own equipment, guaranteed to get a good start, does no real damage to the feral colony, and is a lot of fun, if you have the time. Biggest drawback is the number of trips you make to the trapping site. If very far away, the cost of gasoline becomes a factor. Once established, you can trap for years from the same tree, house, tank, etc.

    To each his own. I just prefer trapping over letting them swarm and not being certain that you entice the swarm into one of your boxes.

    cchoganjr
    Do you have plans on how to build the traps? I agree I don't want to damage the hive or tree but your point on trapping makes sense....

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Dublin, California
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    JRG13..... I very respectifully, disagree that getting the queen is rare. Several factors determine whether you will get the queen, but,it is not rare under the right circumstances.

    And, in my system of trapping you are not just removing field force. As soon as you install the trap, you get guard bees to guard the new entrance, cleaners to clean the trap and brood combs you supply, fanners to ventilate the new chamber. Then when you introduce the frame of unsealed brood you immediately get nurse bees, more housekeepers, wax builders, all the components you need for a successful colony.

    Putting out swarm traps are hit and miss at best. I prefer a sure thing. The feral hive may only swarm one time per year, but, managed trapping can make 3 or more new colonies from a single source each year. I have taken as many as 6 in a single season and the feral colony did fine that Winter and I trapped the following year.

    cchoganjr
    You requeen correct so getting the queen is not an issue....

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Neodesha, Ks
    Posts
    623

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    Do a Google for "Cleo Hogan Trap Out". and you will find more Info. Dale

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Dublin, California
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    Thanks for info...

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,840

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    calbears94 Send me an e-mail cchoganjr@scrtc.com and I will send my trapping instructions with photos of traps in progress, from that you should be able to build you a trap.

    It may be a few days before I get back to you, I am in Florida and have virtually no internet access. I will try to go to the Library and get on line every few days. I will be back in Kentucky on ar about 15 March.

    Thanks...

    cchoganjr

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Lizard Creek, Louisiana
    Posts
    377

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    Groovy....I also found a large Oak Tree with bee's in it while putting out my swarm traps yesterday.

    Unfortunately; the tree is in a high traffic area of the local AM Vets property.

    Many folks have their lunch under the large oak trees and parents await the school bus under the trees for their returning school children.

    Should I approach the AM Vet folk's and see if they are willing to allow me to place some swarm traps?

    How far away can I place the traps to be successful? Anything placed very near will be spotted and probably messed with by the public:{

    Anyway and advice would be appreciated:}

    Happy Margi Gras

    Snook

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Dublin, California
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Located a feral colony in a tree trunk

    The feral swarm I found was also on a trail path so no way to hide either.... I am sure if I ask the city they will say no so I might just do to try.....

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