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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,253

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    Barry,

    Just wanted you and others to know that in the course of the last 25 years I have dealt with many upstanding and honest beekeepers from the same community as MR. Z... Some really swell ones.... Ones that I would hand all I have with the exception of my wife....

    The problem lies in that those who fit that category happen to be the exception as opposed to the rule.

    Unfortunately those who are a great asset to our state happen to be a thin slice of the big picture as seen by not only myself but many other beekeepers. Mr. Z's case, which is reaching its final judicial stage clearly points out by what the Tauzer's and many others have been going through on an inordinate scale since "they" arrived.

    The truth be told.... I and many others in our area will unequivocally state that there are many more times beyond this current case which have shown an abhorrent statistically proven propensity for the "them" to be just the opposite of the comments listed in my first paragraph. If you or I were to put up a survey on here to ask who was out there stealing all the hives in our area it would almost conclusively point to two "communities" as the fingered perpetrators. How would you like us call these folks? We all know who it is.... Hiding it is not going to make it better. Dealing with it openly can do nothing but help....

    I consider this analogous to what I experienced 50 years ago when I was a child and the "G*psies" would show up in their wagons on the front yard... There might have been a few good ones among them but everyone knew when they showed up you better lock the chicken coop and get out the shotgun cause the ratio of trouble was going to be a lot higher than with the "average" Joe stepping on your door steps. All I can say is good riddance to that as well as the junk happening now. We used to call the neighbors and let them know the wagons were on their way. Doing so here is the same thing but just a different form or conveying the information.

    I can dare to bet it was not one of the old timers who parked on top of UV's home place. No way in the world. At times Trevor puts hives next to my home place for pollination.. No big deal... But he doesn't leave them parked for 500 years knowing its going to cause me issues.

    Unfortunately this "discussion" has only just begun..... Until people get with the old plan or the state implements new ones this is going to turn out messy somewhere down the line....

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,320

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    Phil, you and I have had conversations and I know you're a smart cookie. Nowhere have I tried to cover up or hide any information being posted here about who is/has done unlawful acts. Regardless of what unlawful act an individual or group of people have done, I still expect civility in how they are address and that means using proper names/labels when mentioning them. Slurs and derogatory names will not be allowed.
    Regards, Barry

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    groveton tx
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    Seems like there could be decent wintering grounds in other parts of the country that would have many less beekeepers. Maybe the other south western states. The bees would still be close to almonds and not have the fire ant issues we have here in the gulf Coast states. Seems to me that 100 acres of ground wouldn't take care of many bees even if planted into loads of different forage plants.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    Babybee I imagine there are the grounds you speak of, but the cost to truck them there and hire trusted help to take care of them would over ride the purpose of being able to manage the colonies yourself, unless you are single or are willing to travel like a gypsy.

    My question to the guys that do bees for a living is this: Example- Lets say your a beekeeper in Yuba City, you run 5000 hives, obviously you cant keep that many in one area so you need to spread them out around a large area so you have yards from Redding to Los Banos, how can that be fair to a guy that wants to take up bees on a larger scale than a hobbiest? I mean, if I ask a farmer permission to put some hives on his property that is 10 minutes from my house and he grants it, how can a larger guy from 3 hours away get mad about it? Kind of like monopolizing the state wouldn't it??

    Im in the same general area as a couple other people on here and also a few that are not on this site, and everyone seems to get along and help each other out as well. The yards are actually fairly close to each other but with limited amount of hives per yard. During certain crop blooms there are hundreds more hives that show up and leave after bloom as well and not a bad word is ever said amongst each other. Where I keep my bees they stay there year round (except for almonds) and is considered my home yard where everything through out the year is done. During safflower hundreds of hives move in and after they all move out............now could those guys get mad that a guy that has treated this farm as his "home" is also there for the safflower bloom?? I am the new guy on the block in the area and in my mind don't have any say or even care about who moves in and out. Im just content in having a decent area to keep my hives where the only flow isn't sitting in a tote waiting to be pumped out.

    I can totally understand yards in the foothills where your basic honey flow bloom comes from star thistle and not much else, then you would need to have certain areas to yourself to obtain a honey crop, especially over the last few drought years.

    I understand there are people that make a living off of bees, and I totally respect that, but does it give them the right to lock up the entire state for their own private use? I mean, I have no intentions of ever looking for a yard more than 1/2 hour from my house, but if I had 1000 hives, im sure I would have no choice but to go looking, even if it meant undesirable areas that would mean keeping hives alive on sub and syrup!!
    Coyote Creek Bees

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morro Bay, California, USA
    Posts
    705

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    The issue is a broad one: civic integration of immigrant communities. Carnegie Foundation does a lot of thought work on the issue -- perhaps appealing to them to study Russian/Ukrainian integration in California beekeeping might provide a useful set of actions and blueprints for improvement.

    Many immigrant communities have quickly adopted classic American values, mores and ethics, but often after a period of discrimination, exclusion and an episode of rampant criminality that caused self-inflicted damage to the community.

    Steps that often accelerate integration are 1) professional certification, and 2) mixed native-immigrant professional associations.

    Any regulation is anti-thetical to the "rugged individualists" that believe packing a six-shooter is the solution to any problem in our wild, wild west (of 21th century suburbia). Consider how re-instituting a bee yard inspection and documentation requirement would regularize the profession. That is the apiary analog of 1) profesional certification.

    The strictly voluntary associations could become a mandatory requirement, and hence ensure that native-immigrant mixing take place. The reason this works to reduce corrupt or dishonest practices, is a web of associations are built. The loyalties of the "good" guys are divided between their ethnic clan and their new friends and business associates. In more times than not, the appeal of becoming a real American acting within American mores will trump their diminishing loyalty to the card-sharks in their old ethnic cohort. Exclusion only builds a us-vs-them solidarity that accomodates dishonest trickery and protects it if the victims are in the "enemy" camp.

    Consider, Leonid Zaytev of Bee Way Honey, subject to another thread. He belongs to a new church group in Oregon, has a very substantial business. He is on the path to integration obviously, but just as clearly must have some ties to the Slavic immigrant community and knowledge of some of its problematic characters. Its those that can bridge the divide, that will be able to reform the practices of the new striving groups.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
    Posts
    1,601

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    I disagree. Maybe Ca should adopt the laws of ND pertaining to bees: http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/T04C...20140225104638

    Six shooters are for girls. Real happiness is belt fed!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morro Bay, California, USA
    Posts
    705

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    I would agree the North Dakota laws are an excellent template for a revised California license. The registered list of ND yards is online as a current pdf. When the Kern County theft happened last month, the perpetrator's (Gabino Jordan Pena) employer was indentified. The yards that employer registered (and nearby registrations) in South West ND, could be searched (via satellite image). The color scheme picked by the perp for repainting is distinctive and can be read by satellite.

    Nothing like that California at all, where counties collect some hit-or-miss registration information, and beek's are loathe to comply.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
    Posts
    1,601

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    Well I am definitely not for more regulations and I think Ca is loaded with ones that could be stripped, but set all that aside, I also think in this circumstance it would be a way for all to move forward. All that said, I dont live there (did for 4 years) and will never live there again so it dont much matter to me. You all that live there need to figure it out.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,408

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    >The registered list of ND yards is online as a current pdf.

    The problem is that this cuts both ways. A perp can just look for a nice yard to steal online without having to drive around and look...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fallon NV USA
    Posts
    92

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    hmm next will be drones

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    North DAKOTA is overflowing with bees, beeyards,( more non-registered than registered )and migratory beekeepers , so much so there is a lot of of overflow into Manitoba and what ever you have we will soon have,eg SHB was found last year or was that 2 years ago.Bees don't check into Canadian customs when they cross the border

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    822

    Default Re: Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft

    I have saved this thread and am just now getting back to read it. . . This has been very helpful for me to see all of the attitudes out there both good and bad. The way I look at it is I will do what I would want someone to do towards me. I have been aware of a yard where I can keep some hives at (The owners just want pollination) and the lady told me that there's another beekeeper about 100 yards away from their house. I told her that I will need to contact the beekeeper before I can agree to put hives there. Well I've sent 2 e-mails about a month and a half in-between and haven't heard anything back. The land owner said that she didn't think that the beekeeper kept bees there, but that they lived there. Well If I don't hear back I'm going to put some hives there. What more can be done? If this particular beekeeper would have said "Yes I have hives here so please don't put yours there" it would have been a done deal. I have enough space now to keep hives at I don't "need" another yard. We ought to be considerate of other's "space" even though we are "allowed" in the strictest sense. For those as in this situation that feel like stealing in whatever form it takes I say I hope they get what's coming.

    BTW does anyone know what finally happened here with this case?
    Last edited by delber; 03-18-2014 at 10:32 AM. Reason: follow up question

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