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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    If the EPA was moving towards approving a use of oxalic acid a a varroa control, oxalic acid would still be considered a "pesticide". It would however, be part of a product that was labelled and approved for that use, still as a pesticide.

    Pardon my cynicism, but if the EPA is moving in that direction, it is only because some product manufacturer sees the potential for making some money with this labeled and registered application of oxalic acid. I would expect to see this approved use in a form that is not easily duplicated with widely available hardware store oxalic acid - otherwise why pay for the testing and approval process? There would be little likelihood of the details being made public before the manufacturer has their ducks in a row.
    Graham
    --- Practical reality trumps philosophy!

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    If the EPA was moving towards approving a use of oxalic acid a a varroa control, oxalic acid would still be considered a "pesticide". It would however, be part of a product that was labelled and approved for that use, still as a pesticide.
    The use of OA as a pesticide had expired and was not reapplied for....... thus again according to Meredith the EPA no longer lists it as a pesticide...
    Last edited by snl; 02-18-2014 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Punctuation
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Pardon my cynicism, but if the EPA is moving in that direction, it is only because some product manufacturer sees the potential for making some money with this labeled and registered application of oxalic acid. I would expect to see this approved use in a form that is not easily duplicated with widely available hardware store oxalic acid - otherwise why pay for the testing and approval process? There would be little likelihood of the details being made public before the manufacturer has their ducks in a row.
    According to the EPA they are relying on the Canadian reports and others.
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    If the EPA was (it is) moving towards approving a use of oxalic acid a a varroa control, oxalic acid would still be considered a "pesticide". It would however, be part of a product that was labelled and approved for that use, still as a pesticide.
    You could very well be correct, time and the EPA will tell.
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    No misunderstanding.... Straight from Meredith F. Laws, Chief, Insecticide-Rodenticide Branch. Office of Pesticide Programs....
    Good to hear. Did Ms. Laws indicate a time frame?
    Last edited by shinbone; 02-18-2014 at 01:25 PM.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    Good to hear. Did Mr. Laws indicate a time frame?
    Not a Mr., it's Ms. or Mrs. Laws..... it was hoped "later this year or early next." Keep your fingers crossed.
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    According to the EPA they are relying on the Canadian reports and others.
    Someone will have to pony up the registration fee - about $600,000 last I checked, and prepare the paperwork. If the EPA reclassifies/approves oxlic acid for use against varroa on their own initiative, where does that leave the manufacturers of competing products - the very ones that paid a lot of money to get their respective products approved? Their lobbyists and lawyers will have a bonanza!
    Graham
    --- Practical reality trumps philosophy!

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Not a Mr., it's Ms. or Mrs. Laws.....
    Oops. My mistake. Went back and fixed it.
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Someone will have to pony up the registration fee - about $600,000 last I checked, and prepare the paperwork. If the EPA reclassifies/approves oxlic acid for use against varroa on their own initiative, where does that leave the manufacturers of competing products - the very ones that paid a lot of money to get their respective products approved? Their lobbyists and lawyers will have a bonanza!
    This is actually something wrong with the system.

    In my own country, when varroa arrived advice was sought by govt on how to handle this / assist beekeepers. A raft of pesticides were approved for use, the idea being we did not want to have just one or two pesticides that got used every time and promoted resistance to them. Oxalic acid was approved at no cost to anyone, the governing body saw it as their duty to do that. Other commercial products (Apistan for example) had to go through an approval process at their own cost, we are a small country though trials did not have to be run here we accept overseas data.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Someone will have to pony up the registration fee - about $600,000 last I checked, and prepare the paperwork. If the EPA reclassifies/approves oxlic acid for use against varroa on their own initiative, where does that leave the manufacturers of competing products - the very ones that paid a lot of money to get their respective products approved? Their lobbyists and lawyers will have a bonanza!
    Nope, no registration fee.. again EPA doing this on their own. Could very well be that you're right Graham on the lawyers and lobbyists on other products, but accordingly this is the EPA's initiative. As they said in the meeting "We're not the bad guys!" Certainly OA will not supplant existing products.
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Oh. Well in that case ignore my last post.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    As they (i.e. EPA) said in the meeting "We're not the bad guys!"
    "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

    :-)
    --shinbone
    (3rd year, 14 hives, Zone 5b, 5400 ft, 15.8" annual rainfall)

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lburou View Post
    we can write our representatives to urge their support. If ever a fast track for approval was indicated, it should be considered for OA vaporization.
    Me, I'm writing to Michelle Obama. As a "Beehaver" I would hope that this is a cause she could pursue. We all (well almost all) know that the woman rule the roost. Email her with your request for the fast tracking of OA.
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Nope, no registration fee.. again EPA doing this on their own.
    I understand your point, and while you very well have understood exactly what Ms Laws said, well, I'll believe that is actually going to happen when I see it on an official document. She may have an honest opinion that this will get approved, but ... stuff ... happens in the best of circumstances. Manufacturers of competing products aren't likely to just throw up their hands and slink off.

    The EPA can't approve anything without putting it in the Federal Register. It will be interesting to see if/when that actually happens.
    Graham
    --- Practical reality trumps philosophy!

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid - No longer a "pesticide."

    @FLOTUS

    You can tweet her if you want.

  16. #56
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    Grayson, KY
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    This will probably disappear when competitors get wind of it.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Since so many colonies are being treated with OA, by so many beekeepers, it's akin to deliberately making 'scofflaws' out of an ag. sector with very high visibility.

    They can't just make it disappear.

  18. #58
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    Hardin Cty, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    There would also be an opportunity, to source medical grade OA to sell to people who are concerned about purity.
    I don't want "pure" toilet cleaner in my hives either.

  19. #59
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    Feb 2014
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    Hardin Cty, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Normal use of the same pesticide is bound to create resistance too. Abuse does not have to exist. Even if sometimes it happens. Checkmite was not developed because Apistan stopped working. It was an alternative. Miticure, an Apistan based strip, was developed from a cattle mite ear tag. But the company discontinued making it for beekeepers.
    Again, "Its OK because everyone else did it in the past" attitude.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."

    Gee, I didn't know my comments needed translation, let alone categorization. Thanks, Duncan.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

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