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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    I'm the odd man out. No science or engineering back ground. Just a taxidermist and artist. However coming from a construction family I am also a Joe handyman guy that can figure out how to fix most things or figure out how they work by looking at them.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Also Ran ! ---> Electrical Engineer, University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana. 35 years Semiconductor Engineering.
    Total introvert. Too old to care. 8-)
    Love the Forum thinking!

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    To tell you truth, I think a STEM background can be a detriment to successful beekeeping. Every engineer thinks that they are good at it because they understand concepts like conservation of momentum, angles, and velocity. It may work on paper, but not in real life..
    That really doesn't have much to do with anything. None of the theory you mentioned has anything to do with beekeeping, perhaps extracting. Much of mechanical engineering has nothing to do with keeping bees, maybe 1% of it applies. And that which applies is on a basic level, for anyone to understand, does not require a degree of anykind. My dad is an engineer who designs jet engines for GE, the compressor section and blades to be exact, how does that have anything to do with beekeeping? Well it doesn't. Whenever you put people in groups you get yourself in trouble, not all engineers are the same, not all beekeepers are the same. There are dumb and smart people everywhere you go and a degree doesn't make that determination.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by burns375 View Post
    That really doesn't have much to do with anything. None of the theory you mentioned has anything to do with beekeeping, perhaps extracting. Much of mechanical engineering has nothing to do with keeping bees, maybe 1% of it applies. And that which applies is on a basic level, for anyone to understand, does not require a degree of anykind. My dad is an engineer who designs jet engines for GE, the compressor section and blades to be exact, how does that have anything to do with beekeeping? Well it doesn't. Whenever you put people in groups you get yourself in trouble, not all engineers are the same, not all beekeepers are the same. There are dumb and smart people everywhere you go and a degree doesn't make that determination.
    That was the exact same point that I was trying to make.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    If you're saying that STEM has nothing to do with beekeeping, then you're wrong.

    There's hardly one aspect of beekeeping that doesn't involve one or more of the STEM fields.

    The Langstroth hive is just one example of a STEM application in beekeeping. Yep, it was a big one.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    To tell you truth, I think a STEM background can be a detriment to successful beekeeping. Such people have too much attitude about how they can save the bees by engineering their bees and hives to meet whatever hair-brained theory that they have at the particular moment. Even if you went to MIT or RPI you are not going to reinvent the wheel after thousands of years of human manipulation of bees. It just ain't going to happen. It's like playing pool or hitting a baseball. Every engineer thinks that they are good at it because they understand concepts like conservation of momentum, angles, and velocity. It may work on paper, but not in real life.

    Also the irritation factor and one sided affect on discussion boards such as this, does not always facilitate meaningful discussion.

    Myself; guilty as charged.
    Ah, not so with biology. Math is a subject that is concrete by nature of numbers and totally predictable. Whereas in biology, many aspects are always changing and never stay the same or constant due to life forms adapting to surroundings and environment, thus hardly predictable at all. An engineer can tell you exactly how much of a resource is needed for a project, and can predict with a high level of confidence the future success of the project. Granted, math is applied in certain areas of biology such as population models, predator/prey relationships, sustainable yields and the like. Basically, the science of engineering is far more predictable that that of biology. I know many farmers who are better biologists than those who actually went through college to be biologists. It makes sense....if you don't understand the life history of what you are growing or raising, you will not make it as a farmer/producer. Otherwise, it would be like a gambler who hasn't the slightest idea how to deal cards.
    There are other aspects of the STEM field that have been beneficial too. We wouldn't know the life history of bees without the science, we wouldn't have extractors without the technology, we wouldn't have our boxes without engineering, and we couldn't forecast varroa numbers without the math. Yep....they all play a role, and the successful Beekeepers know it. However, they don't have a bias toward any particular aspect of the "STEM" fields. They all work in harmony with one another so to speak.
    A man is worth just as much as the things about which he busies himself- Marcus Aurelius

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Uh, what does STEM stand for?
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  8. #88
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    Lassen, California, USA
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Whoa! Had to make a quickie reply, I can relate to the "introvert","socially awkward" but I usually refer to it as "socially retarded". Nope, not an engineer.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonRedding View Post
    Math is a subject that is concrete by nature of numbers and totally predictable.
    Divide any number by 0 what do you get?
    Last edited by Acebird; 02-15-2014 at 11:33 AM.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #90
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    Stone City, Iowa
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    219

    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    My electrical engineer husband has no desire to get near the stinging insects. Or too involved in the horse breeding business. I think SOME engineering types have a little trouble with biological systems just because they are so complex and as of yet not fully understood. Thus A (a mare) + B (a stallion), taking into account A + B's reproductive health and condition, should result in C (a foal). What do you mean no, and you don't know why?! (Of course there IS a reason, but we don't what it is yet in this case. Might never know.) Bees - same thing. Yet bees, I think, can call to many with the engineering bent because bees, given the opportunity, will follow their "programming" to a predictable outcome, and yet have the joy and zest of living things. Plus there are many enjoyable things you can play with dealing with the systems that exist, not just making honey.

    JC

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    That was the exact same point that I was trying to make.
    Ok. I miss understood....good to know were're on the same page. Just about anyone can be successful in beekeeping, takes drive, passion and inquisitive nature, a willingness to learn and here other viewpoints. Beesource has been a great resource for me, far more learned here than from my local club.

    STEM = fields of study science, technology, engineering, and mathematics

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    I am not an engineer. I just like bees. Crazy how many are engineers though. Seems like a popular career.

    I'm reading lots about introverts and socially awkward...is that common among beekeepers too? LOL. I am so brand new to this. I only personally know one beekeeper, though I am being proactive about that number going up! I'm not introverted at all. I love people and love being surrounded by people!

    I do wonder though, do you HAVE to be good at science or math to be a good beekeeper? I hope not, because neither are strong points for me.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal View Post
    I do wonder though, do you HAVE to be good at science or math to be a good beekeeper? I hope not, because neither are strong points for me.
    No just have to have the desire and ability to learn.

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Devide any number by 0 what do you get?
    Precisely
    A man is worth just as much as the things about which he busies himself- Marcus Aurelius

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonRedding View Post
    Ah, not so with biology. Math is a subject that is concrete by nature of numbers and totally predictable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Devide any number by 0 what do you get?
    Division by zero is totally predictable. It is undefined every single time. Do you think that is going to change and become unpredictable?
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal View Post
    I do wonder though, do you HAVE to be good at science or math to be a good beekeeper? I hope not, because neither are strong points for me.
    If you want to be a good beekeeper, I would say that you will need to have a knack for being observational about what is going on in your bee yard. Just knowing science or math doesn't help unless you know how to apply them. Therefore, your success at beekeeping will depend on your knowledge of those subjects,but not solely.
    Again, I personally know some farmers who would blow away many biologists, engineers, and geneticists, and even bankers with their knowledge. Needless to say, they are VERY VERY successful with their operations because they knew how to apply that knowledge to their goals.
    As a matter of fact, this rule can be and is applied to everything else in life.
    A man is worth just as much as the things about which he busies himself- Marcus Aurelius

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    TalonRedding..

  18. #98
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    Centerville, Utah, USA
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonRedding View Post
    If you want to be a good beekeeper, I would say that you will need to have a knack for being observational about what is going on in your bee yard. Just knowing science or math doesn't help unless you know how to apply them. Therefore, your success at beekeeping will depend on your knowledge of those subjects,but not solely.
    Again, I personally know some farmers who would blow away many biologists, engineers, and geneticists, and even bankers with their knowledge. Needless to say, they are VERY VERY successful with their operations because they knew how to apply that knowledge to their goals.
    As a matter of fact, this rule can be and is applied to everything else in life.
    I like how you put this, thank you. ��

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post

    Anyway for further clarification, I never said that science has nothing to do with the advancement of beekeeping, you and others have misread that.
    I think I understand what you are saying. Sometimes, people become tunnel visioned in the way they look at problems and ways to solve the problems. And yes, some think they can re-invent the wheel even when it doesn't need it. As a result, they think that their possible solution is the only one out there, which of course, is absolutely absurd.
    The best thing everyone can do is to be open minded and hear other people out, even if they disagree. Collaboration with one another is how Beekeepers will solve their problems, in the past, now and in the future. It's also not a good thing to take criticism personally (not at all implying that you are).
    I think the reason there are so many engineers and scientists in beekeeping is because they are problem solvers by nature, and beekeeping fits the bill for them to do on the side. It's the perfect escape so to speak. Coincidently, they figure something out and decide to share what they found with others. Sometimes, what they find is accepted with loving arms and other times it is rejected with a swift kick to the seat of the pants.
    A man is worth just as much as the things about which he busies himself- Marcus Aurelius

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Engineers and Bees

    I am an electrician currently with a degree in computer science and have worked as an electrical engineer to some extent designing electrical systems for large equipment and machinery but hold no degrees in engineering.

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