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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Spanish Fork, UT, USA
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    378

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    I your frames are moth eaten then I would recommend throwing them away. Other wise you can reuse them. When I make splits I like to put two new frames in per box. If there are two many new frames and you have a drought summer with poor nectar flows than some hives don't build up strong enough for winter.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,698

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Another factor is what percentage of the wax you are able to economically recover from the old comb. At one time we had a fairly good system of melting down old comb and pressing out the wax.

    If you are business that prefers to keep the beekeepers busy in the winter, it was another job to keep them out of the bars.

    Crazy Roland

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,357

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post

    If you are business that prefers to keep the beekeepers busy in the winter, it was another job to keep them out of the bars.

    Crazy Roland
    And here folks is the reason for Beesource. After 30+years of building equipment and muddling through baffling beekeeping terms no one really know from whence they came I finally know why frames parts are not called "sticks" but bars. Only an old German American from near Milwaukee would be able to come up with and explain the etymological reason of why beekeeping sticks are called what they are. Guess I need to name my next forklift "bouncer" to keep up the tradition. Thanks for the help Roland I wasn't sure what we were gonna call her.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,824

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbin View Post
    Mr. Bush, I've been to several classes that recommend replacing all brood comb from 1 to 3 years depending on the instructors opinion. Not because the beekeeper treats, but because the farmers treat their crops. I was thinking maybe 5 years. No way I'm changing comb every year. So did your statement include brood comb, or just honey supers?
    Thanks
    I find that bees winter better on old comb. I don't rotate comb out of my hives. I continue to have good winter survival in my production hives.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,374

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    I find that bees winter better on old comb. I don't rotate comb out of my hives. I continue to have good winter survival in my production hives.
    I generally agree with you Cam. I harshly cull older frames if they have more than about 10% surface area that has been rebuilt as drone comb or if there are any structural problems at all. I cant stand trying to pull out a brood comb and end up pulling out nothing more than a top bar. Replacing on some set schedule? Sorry, but I just have a problem with throwing away fully functional comb.
    Been trying to hold my tongue on Robbin's post, but there are "instructors" out there advocating 1 to 3 year comb replacement? Really? All I can say is wow.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,824

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    I put one foundationless frame in my hives and then cut the drone brood out periodically. I believe this helps with mites and solves the building of drone comb on my brood frames.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,092

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by xcugat View Post
    Just to be clear I am taking about moth eaten combs that are shot and need new foundation rather than just old comb. I wanted to see if commercial beekeepers cleaned them out and put new foundation to save the price of the frames, or just burn and get all new
    Like someone I talked to about sinking more money into my truck said, it's still an old truck.

    Maybe some outfits like to reuse old frames, but I suspect that most tend to toss and burn. Then buy new frames. It helps stimulate the economy and new frames are so nice to work with.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  8. #28

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    As the thread seems to keep returning to the 'why' cull....
    I'm sure this will stir some debate....but I'm simply repeating what a couple of serious entomologists stated.
    It was my understanding that one reason brood comb gets dark is from the waste produced by larvae and pupae. The wax absorbs those wastes until it no longer can....then the brood gets to develop in their own excrement. So even without the consideration of other compounds, whether introduced directly by beekeepers or brought in by the bees themselves, brood comb will eventually become toxic.....to some degree.
    As to the op....I don't reuse any part of mine. There just aren't enough hours in the day.....or I'd have to forego reading and posting on Beesource. Perish the thought.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,092

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    I don't know that it's a bad idea to change combs, but I never change combs. By far the majority of chemicals in most hives is from the beekeepers and they should be changed if you are putting chemicals in, especially lipophilic chemicals like fluvalinate, cumaphos, thymol or other oils. I'm sure some pesticides gets brought in from time to time by the bees, but it also breaks down eventually. Most of the approved pesticides (other than the neonics) have fairly short lives these days.
    Yes, but do these things show up in the honey? How many combs would one have to change out how often to keep pesticide residues out of the honey?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,092

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    As the thread seems to keep returning to the 'why' cull....
    I'm sure this will stir some debate....but I'm simply repeating what a couple of serious entomologists stated.
    It was my understanding that one reason brood comb gets dark is from the waste produced by larvae and pupae. The wax absorbs those wastes until it no longer can....then the brood gets to develop in their own excrement. So even without the consideration of other compounds, whether introduced directly by beekeepers or brought in by the bees themselves, brood comb will eventually become toxic.....to some degree.
    As to the op....I don't reuse any part of mine. There just aren't enough hours in the day.....or I'd have to forego reading and posting on Beesource. Perish the thought.
    Seems like someone is assuming that developing bees deficate in their cells. I don't think this is so. Comb becomes dark because the bees don't wash their feet when coming home. They also polish and propolize the cells which adds to their stiffness and darkness, resulting in a small amount of wax rendered from brood combs.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  11. #31

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Comb becomes dark because the bees don't wash their feet when coming home.
    I guess I'm pretty lucky....my bees evidently wipe their feet before stepping on to my honey comb as it stays nice and white.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,107

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    As long as the structure is sound and it's still square, I reuse them. Frames don't need to be cleaned up very well to be reused. If there is some good comb along the top, let them draw it out like it is as foundationless. Or, scrape just enough old comb and propolis to put new foundation in. To me, it's quicker than putting a new one together. Or use it for bait hives.
    Lawrence Heafner
    15 hives; 15 years; TF for 10; Zone 7B

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
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    2,724

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Seems like someone is assuming that developing bees deficate in their cells. I don't think this is so.
    Really? You don't think a bee voids its bowels at any time before it leaves it's cell?

    Honeybee larvae have a rectum. I would imagine it has one to use it, although I can't say I've seen it for myself. Although ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture states that a larvae will void it's bowels right before entering the pre-pupae stage and spinning a cocoon.

  14. #34
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    27,092

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Is that stuff absorbed by the cell wall or cleaned up by the cell cleaners?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,724

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Most is cleaned out. I can't say all of it is. Ever take an old brood comb frame and cut it in half? You see some pretty nasty stuff in there. Page 164 of ABC has a good photo (the 41st Edition), if you haven't seen it.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    861

    Cool Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Like someone I talked to about sinking more money into my truck said, it's still an old truck.

    Maybe some outfits like to reuse old frames, but I suspect that most tend to toss and burn. Then buy new frames. It helps stimulate the economy and new frames are so nice to work with.
    Right now we are scraping all our brood comb and doing the sort and cut outs. Most of which has been not only in my operation but in many others operations.

    Mark, I did my part and bought 5000 new brood frame this year to try and keep the economy going. With all this cold weather those frames makes a hot fire in the shop too.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    1,645

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    I'm by no means a commercial beek but, I clean them up and put new wax in them. Some how I forgot to put moth crystals on one stack of supers so needless to say they were trashed. It was about 10 boxes worth of comb. Me and my son cleaned them up in about an hour. At $1 a piece that saved me $100. I can't make that kind of money per hour so I figured it was worth the trouble.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Westchester NY
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Thanks for all the replies.

    I wasn't going to get into the idea as to why to replace comb in this thread but being as the conversation has shifted to that point I would say that eventually ALL comb will become contaminated with outside chemicals regardless of if the beekeeper is treatment free or not. I recently attended a lecture from Jennifer Barry and she pointed out the difficulty of getting wax that had zero contaminants in it even from treatment free beekeepers just because the chemicals are unfortunately inherent in environment.
    http://www.peekskillnurseries.com
    Specialists in Ground Cover plants since 1937. Talk to me about ground-covers!

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    951

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Here is a report just as an example:
    I finished scraping down 32 deadouts today.
    From those hives exactly 50 frames had old plastic foundation w/comb that I didn't like for one reason or another snapped out, the frame briefly scraped and new Permadent plastic black foundation snapped back in.
    Also 17 wooden frames w/plastic foundation tossed and replaced with new.
    Thought I would post this if inquiring minds would be interested.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,357

    Default Re: reusing frames vs trashing them

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    I finished scraping down 32 deadouts today.
    Was that it for the year? WOW!!!!!!!!!

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