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  1. #21
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    Jun 2009
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    Montgomery County, NY
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Which in this case I believe it will cost Mannlake the bundle of cash to get it approved from state to state.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by BMAC View Post
    Personally I like Thymol treatments. Expensive but extremely effective. Though I still consider mixing it up a bit and using Hopguard as an early spring treatment while Im down south.

    Why do you want it in NY?
    I was thinking of experimenting with it post check back down south if I dont like the mite counts I am seeing. Seems like hive sizes in the 4 to 5 comb range and April temps might well be ideal. Anyone actually tried this?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    I was thinking of experimenting with it post check back down south if I dont like the mite counts I am seeing.
    I've never used it but I posted a link to a study done in Canada where they said it was only 40% effective, but I never could confirm if the 40% was for one treatment or the three treatments people that have used it recommend.

    a post on bee-l from canada's Medhat Nasr, I'm not sure what the second 40% kill means for the method most people are using here ie 3 times at one week interval.

    http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/w...F=&S=&P=188880

    Peter and others: I have a student just defended her M. Sc. last week. One experiment testing HopGuard showed that the efficacy is about 40% mite kill in the fall with a single application. Repeated experiment with 3 applications in the spring once every week yielded same efficacy (40%). Bees clean up and chew the strips within 4-5 days. Kill was high within 1-3 days max. HopGuard has potential if the application method modified.

    Medhat

    Dr. Medhat Nasr
    Alberta Provincial Apiculturist
    Pest Surveillance Branch
    Research and Innovation Division
    Agriculture and Rural Development
    17507 Fort Road NW
    Edmonton, AB T5Y 6H3 Canada
    Last edited by wildbranch2007; 02-11-2014 at 09:21 AM.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,572

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    If you are doing it at the 3 week mark after being made up a single treatment would suffice (I'm talking about qc's and brood breaks). 40% effective? Not sure what that means. Need to find that study.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #25

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Anyone actually tried this?
    Jim, I haven't tried it exactly as you are thinking....but I have tried it in several different applications and was totally unimpressed. it MIGHT be ok in a broodless colony but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Jim, I haven't tried it exactly as you are thinking....but I have tried it in several different applications and was totally unimpressed. it MIGHT be ok in a broodless colony but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
    Thanks Dan. I wont bet the farm thats for sure....note the use of the word "experimenting" in post #22 Considering trying it side by side with OA, thymol and no treatment at all. Then comparing fall counts.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
    Posts
    1,934

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Jim as much of a PITA it is to properly administer and the cost of it, I think Hopguard would be most effective in treating 5 frame nucs just before they hit the road to go north. Pop lids and drop a single strip in the center. That was my intent, but I didn't actually do it. Maybe this coming spring I will do it.

    However your experiment does sound good. Think you will follow thru and do it? We would all be curious to know the results.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    According to ML its currently available in California, Delaware, Iowa, Idaho, Illinois and Washington. Texas insp. was surprised the paperwork hadnt been done and is checking on it. ML says Hopguard 2 should be available very shortly (like weeks). We'll see.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,084

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by BMAC View Post
    Which in this case I believe it will cost Mannlake the bundle of cash to get it approved from state to state.
    I don't think that Mann Lake will have to spend any more money than normal. ML won't have to spend money in each state, as far as I know. I don't even know that it costs a "bundle of cash" at all. Documentation and a show of need, but cash? I don't know.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    2,031

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    ML says Hopguard 2 should be available very shortly (like weeks). We'll see.
    think that will require a new letter being sent in??
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Hopgaurd was granted Section 18 last year and conditions haven't changed so in all likelihood the EPA will fast track approval of the renewal request.

    Seems like maybe there is some confusion about this Thread. I didn't bring this up because I wish to use Hopgaurd or because I need EPA approval, but because for beekeepers in NY State to legally buy and use Hopgaurd a Section 18, issued by the EPA to the State of New York, has to be sought and granted. The seeking part of the process is underway. When the approval part happens I have been told I will be notified by those doing the seeking.

    If anyone from another State other than NY does wish to buy and use Hopgaurd maybe you should be talking to the folks in your State who handle such things.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
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    1,934

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    So NY'ers were able to legally purchase hopguard in NYS in 2013?

  13. #33

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Seems like maybe there is some confusion about this Thread.
    I don't know about that. I think many threads weave back and forth, occasionally crossing the original topic, at the same time picking up tidbits that aren't part of the initial intent. Sometimes those tidbits become the focus and that causes problems. I don't think this thread strayed too awful badly. I didn't lose sight of your purpose....although I did reply to some tids and bits.
    Just my opinion.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by BMAC View Post
    So NY'ers were able to legally purchase hopguard in NYS in 2013?
    Yes.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I don't know about that. I think many threads weave back and forth, occasionally crossing the original topic, at the same time picking up tidbits that aren't part of the initial intent. Sometimes those tidbits become the focus and that causes problems. I don't think this thread strayed too awful badly. I didn't lose sight of your purpose....although I did reply to some tids and bits.
    Just my opinion.
    I got a cpl of PMs which made me write what I wrote.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  16. #36

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I got a cpl of PMs which made me write what I wrote.
    What?! Are you suggesting that not everyone agrees with me?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,084

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Huh?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    think that will require a new letter being sent in??
    I am guessing yes.
    An official I spoke to in Texas checked with their Dept. of Ag. Who handles this and they said probably another 30 days until its finalized because the request from the state beekeeping organization came in late. They also suggested buying it in my home state and hauling it down if need be. LOL. Ya gotta love how these various gummits work.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
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    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    sent an e-mail about that to NYS DEC and to Nick Calderone asking whether the Section 18 is for the Brand Name Product or for the active ingredient. Hopgaurd 2 still has hops in it. Only more I think.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  20. #40

    Default Re: Section 18 Request

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    asking whether the Section 18 is for the Brand Name Product or for the active ingredient.
    I bet it's the product. Premixed with a tested dosage.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

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