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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Solano, California, USA
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    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    "Step by step instructions"

    Pretty funny... is this Beesource or the comedy hour... I'm glad you are going to be the first to implement your suggested easy steps to defeat a semi load of hives with rfid chips.

    1. Create a Faraday cage by wrapping the whole semi with aluminum foil.

    2. Put the semi through the world biggest microwave to fry the chips....

    Is your suggestion a joke or was the toke on the end of the bong overly good last night.


  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,471

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey-4-All View Post
    "Step by step instructions"

    Pretty funny... is this Beesource or the comedy hour... I'm glad you are going to be the first to implement your suggested easy steps to defeat a semi load of hives with rfid chips.

    1. Create a Faraday cage by wrapping the whole semi with aluminum foil.

    2. Put the semi through the world biggest microwave to fry the chips....

    Is your suggestion a joke or was the toke on the end of the bong overly good last night.

    OK, bookmarking this as my early frontrunner for funniest post of 2014. This is assuming it survives Barry's big eraser which is doubtful at best.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,423

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    RFID chips are "radio" activated devices by definition. That means if you intentionally want to block reading the device, simply broadcast "noise" on the frequencies those RFID chips use to communicate with their reader device.

    That is the same concept that cell phone blocking systems use. Of course, the FCC doesn't allow just anyone to legally broadcast on those frequencies in such a manner, but if you are systematically stealing semi loads of bees, why worry about the FCC?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
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    2,887

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    If the drought continues California isn't going to have a bee theft problem anyway... Some farmers are talking about pruning back their trees and sacrificing the crop. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...food-cost.html

    I wonder what rental rates would drop to if California was largely out of the equation?
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Farmington, New Mexico
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    6,668

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    It seems that RFID technology is more suited to inventory control than it is to preventing theft. Shouldn't a proper system be one in which the beekeeper is immediately notified when a pallet moves, and then be tracked via GPS until it's recovered?
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  6. #26
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    Dec 2008
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    Solano, California, USA
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    1,401

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Quote Originally Posted by barry digman View Post
    it seems that rfid technology is more suited to inventory control than it is to preventing theft. Shouldn't a proper system be one in which the beekeeper is immediately notified when a pallet moves, and then be tracked via gps until it's recovered?

    B-i-n-g-o

  7. #27
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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
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    2,887

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey-4-All View Post
    B-i-n-g-o
    If you agree it is a lousy theft deterrent why are you arguing with me about it? Please go back and see the title of this thread

    As I suggested before a retail type RFID tag zapper can be had for a few hundred dollars... With a little work the signal it puts out can be amplified to give it a 4 ft range and then it gets bolted to the pallet forks on a swinger or bobcat. When the thief lifts a pallet of tagged hives the frequency from the tag zapper toasts the circuits in all the tags on that pallet and the "new owner" can re-tag with whatever they want.

    No need for a large microwave or truck size roll of aluminum foil.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
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    1,401

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    If the drought continues California isn't going to have a bee theft problem anyway... Some farmers are talking about pruning back their trees and sacrificing the crop. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...food-cost.html

    I wonder what rental rates would drop to if California was largely out of the equation?
    Drought........ What stinkin drought?

    http://www.marinij.com/marinnews/ci_...in-three-marin

    Even that much rain couldn't block a good rfid Tag

    Although it is still serious I am thankful for those of us got dumped on over the past weekend as should anyone hoping to get queens out of Nor Cal in 2014. We have yards in the shadows of the Mountain that received over 20 inches. Don't think a single one of our yards received less than 4 inches... Means we are up to 25% plus of our seasonal averages. Not great but a fantastic start. Better than a semi load of free rfid tags...............

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    712

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey-4-All View Post
    Regarding the thought that: "someone could easily super glue 400 chips to a bee netting, drive in load up hive and drive out with the hives covered by the netting, and bingo you pass. Unload move to next major route through the border and steal another load." I think you fail to have the concept of how they work.

    Just because you add another layer of chips does not preclude the layer below from activating and sending out its "ID" also. One would have to disable ( destroy) the functionality of every chip on the load and then reapply new ones.

    If we could get to the point where the reacquisition rate of stolen equipment was only 10% of the rate at which the secret service snags fence jumpers at the white house in DC then the nuts thinking about trying and actually doing hive theft would be very few!!!!
    I was thinking thieves would be swapping the frames into new supers. Then hauling them out. Old frames left abandoned somewhere.
    Started 9/13, building slowly, now @ 7 Lang hives + 5 nucs, and treatment style not decided yet

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ft Myers, Fl 33967
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    177

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    A friend of mine had 7 of his hives stolen from an isolated yard a while back. The thief took the frames with comb and honey, the top and inner covers and the bottom board. Leaving the 4 sided box with his name painted on it.
    We looked into putting RFID nail tags into the boxes and that is a viable proceedure and not very expensive. The frames could also be tagged. The hand held readers aare coming down in price and going up in function ablility.
    The problem we ran into is how do you locate a stolen box?
    In Florida we have agriculture inspectors that are required to visit every avairy in the State. They are the people that inspect bee hives and chase cattle rustlers. So we approached them with the idea that the bee clubs would buy the handheld readers and give them to the inspectors. The inspector could scan the boxes as he made his normal rounds and upload the information the the State House every evening. A computer program could check the scanned codes against a data base os stolen boxes and alert the proper dept the next day. We approached the State with the idea and they did not even bother to respond.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
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    2,887

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Quote Originally Posted by jredburn View Post
    In Florida we have agriculture inspectors that are required to visit every avairy in the State. .
    Do they find many beehives in Aviaries?
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Baytown, TX., USA.
    Posts
    651

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    A car wash of mine was once regularly robbed (he/she stole my cameras or cut the wiring). The cops would come and fingerprint the place and offer me moral support but were unable to stop the robber. I sat around that wash, and in it with a shotgun often and long. No luck.
    Finally I purchased a system installed and maintained by a security firm. ADT. Movement detectors and cameras. $300, 150 to install. 32 dollars per month, ADT would call me and the cops when they saw something or movement of the roof or selected equipment. Things stopped happening. Since then I have sold the CW.

    There exists simple, effective detection systems now, far from every item being tagged but enough to protect your boxes. Has been some time since I used this system. If you want fool proof, forget about it. If you can live with a reasonably secure system I think it is possible.
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
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    512

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    Do they find many beehives in Aviaries?
    Good eye.

  14. #34
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    Aug 2006
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    Danbury, CT
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    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    The thing with commercial hive thefts that often gets over looked is that we are not talking about small time crime of opportunity types. A truck load of bees is 100s of thousands of dollars in insurance value. When it is done intentionally it is usually done by career criminal type operations or a rival beekeeper. These guys no the value, they have the equipment to get it done and they know the industry. An amateur could not successfully pull it off.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
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    6,668

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    It seems worth the effort to brainstorm solutions to hive theft. It could result in someone developing a cost effective system. At the very least it's good mental exercise for the tail end of winter.

    I'm thinking of a decoy hive mounted on a pallet with regular hives. The decoy is armed with simple alarm and tracking systems. An alarm could trigger when the cover is pulled off, or when the individual hive or the entire pallet is moved intact. GPS tracking is pretty simple to install and monitor, and there's plenty of room in an empty deep for batteries and alarms and such.

    There doesn't seem to be a system to protect hundreds of individual hives at this point, but plunking one or more decoys into a yard of several hundred might provide the protection one needs. I have a couple of properties with alarm systems and signs, and I always wonder if thieves avoid those because of the signs, which are from a national company and which seem to be understood by the bad boys to be real.

    Thieves always gravitate to the weakest, and avoid situations with obvious risk. If there were an established system with signage that put potential thieves on notice that the hives were protected they're going to head on down the road to find an unprotected yard.

    Anyway, just thinking out loud while the wind blows...
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Midland OR. United States
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Barry, can I have the pattent on the bee decoys to put on your box so as it looks real?:

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
    Posts
    6,668

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    I don't think a patent would be worth much, Red. All the stuff you'd need is already on the shelf. All you have to do is attach it to the inside of the box.
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,384

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    I haven't looked lately at a Mann Lake catalog, but they used to have a dummy frame that had a gps in it didn't they?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #39
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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
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    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    I don't know how many other States do the same, but under CT's Freedom of Information Act the State posts on the Ag website the locations of every registered hive in the State and the owners information. I was approached last winter by the State Inspector about registering my hives. I asked when the location information would be taken off of the web site so my hives don't get stolen and he said it wouldn't. I replied that in that case, I didn't own any beehives. He said it didn't occur to him before that making the information public puts the hives at risk for theft, but given the law he wasn't sure he could do anything about it.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
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    1,401

    Default Re: RFID tags for theft deterrence

    Bluegrass... You have discovered another one of those unforeseen consequences to another "well intentioned" law. Its the reason why every law implemented should be revisited every 3-5 years to get a little hindsight in the front window.... Now that your state has taken away the right to defend those hives good luck!!! (speaking of laws with unintended consequences)

    Feel-gooders and do-gooders in the law making business are the worst possible combinations a place can get.... Don't be surprised if he comes back with a fine and a summons for providing false information to a law enforcement officer once the drones fly over your place.....

    Camobox colors with infrared heat seeking eliminating paint additives will be all the rage in a few years if this keeps up.

    Whats worse? The thief who bypasses your rfid chips or the goobercrat whose allowed by law to sneak around your yard looking for unregistered bees?

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