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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    surrey BC Canada
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    I am trying to determine the frame spacing of the PF 100 frames, will somebody out there kindly let me know? Cheers Chris

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    I took the liberty of investigating how much it would cost to have these custom injection molded. For the first 100, I was quoted somewhere between $21,000 and $27,000.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Quote Originally Posted by chris bright View Post
    I am trying to determine the frame spacing of the PF 100 frames, will somebody out there kindly let me know?
    Frame spacing is the same as conventional frames. I have pictures: http://parkerfarms.biz/beespace.html...nn_Lake_PF-1xx
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,381

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Using an aftermarket fence, I purchased from Peachtree, item 559. I use it with the 90 degree alignment adapter, item 569. It works on both my $99 band saw and my $99 table saw, and I can either use it with or without the vertical extension, and it also can be used with the clamping lever on front or back side of either tool I use it on, that way I don't actually need to change the orientation of the vertical extension, I can simply flip it around 180 degrees to use it, either with the vertical extension or the opposite side, without the extension.

    Yes, I have cut out PF frame foundation centers. I've done it on my band saw, so I could do it quickly, more safely, and retain more of the foundation area for use.

    PF, molded plastic frame/foundations from Mann Lake, LTD. have 1-3/8" wide End Bars, like most commercial frames.

    I had read of others trimming down the End Bars on their PF frames, to achieve 1-1/4" End Bar width for narrower frame spacing. So, just yesterday, using a 40 carbide toothed, 10" blade, and the fence, with vertical extension, I trimmed a stack of new PF frames. I first trimmed them to 1-5/16", by trimming off a sixteenth from one edge, then reversing them and trimming off another sixteenth from the opposite edge. Final result, PF frames with End Bars, 1-1/4" wide. I was pleasantly surprised at how well this worked. The final product had End Bars that were a bit rough, but smoother than I had expected.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    I initially used a table saw to trim my endbars, but later found that a jointer was far more precise. The smoothness is better and it's much faster. Still evaluating the benefits in the hive.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    I took the liberty of investigating how much it would cost to have these custom injection molded. For the first 100, I was quoted somewhere between $21,000 and $27,000.
    Yes, but after that it would be pennies to produce in material costs I would think.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Joseph, thanks for the info, I think I will try to cut out the plastic sheets on my band saw also, I think I may have to find a finer tooth blade for it though.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    I got another reply from Mann Lake:

    Solomon,

    The tooling cost is what makes this prohibitive. We have looked at making 4.9 mm sheets, but don’t see enough extra sales to warrant. Additional sales would have to exceed 50,000 yearly pieces.

    Ed
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    surrey BC Canada
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Thank you very much for sharing your expertise. I think I can take it from here.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Solomon, that's a better reply you got this time. So, 50,000 sheets is 5000 boxes worth, or 2500 double brood boxes worth. That does seem like quite a lot, but I really have no idea of the demand out there for small cell sheets. I had thought it would be pretty good, I mean, I would buy up a couple thousand sheets myself!

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    I wonder how many I'd need. I guess assuming I went with all mediums and wanted 25 hives, max of 9 boxes per hive, that would make 2250 and selling a couple dozen nucs a year.

    Until then, the PF-120s don't annoy me enough to have a real desire to cut them.

    Let's face it friends, the beekeeping industry is not beating down our door to provide us with our "specialized" products.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Solomon, well the plastic frames annoy me plenty, I have never purchased any myself but I have received some in nucs that I bought in the last few years. I just don't like feel of them, they seem uncomfortable on the fingers, especially if they are full of honey. And mostly I hate the burr comb the bees build between them and between boxes that have plastic frames. The bees do build beautiful comb on them though and the queens lay them up great in my experience.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    I agree with you. They don't have the same rigidity or perceived structural integrity that the wooden frames do. They're more flexible and more fragile on the normal prying places. And the burr comb is a problem. But we have to face the fact that Mann Lake is the only one who makes them and they have no impetus to do anything different. They have no competitors and not big enough sales to invest in new or updated molds.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Yeah, that's why I still plan to buy the pf's and cut out the sheets for now.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    311

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    Yeah, that's why I still plan to buy the pf's and cut out the sheets for now.
    Just bought 90, so it'll be me and the band-saw at the school shop for a spell.

    Tony P.
    There must be a harder way to do that... let me find it for you.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: cutting pf 100's

    Last spring I bought 210, best volume price until you get into the pallet sizes. I sold 50 and have 77 in boxes ready to go onto hives this spring. I think next year I'll need to buy another batch as I continue to move into mediums.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

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