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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
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    NE Calif.
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    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    Its fun to joke about secret ingredients and all, but really , the information is out there. My own recipe is always evolving. It was at least 30 years ago when I first noticed that bees would dwindle here in California's late dry summer dearth. Bees in some locations would be much stronger than others because of certain pollens that were available. So we started feeding a brewers yeast and honey mix to the bees in the worst locations in late summer and there was an improvement.I think the subs that are available now are much better than what was around then.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    6,586

    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    Thanks for the input Mike!

    Say, just between you and me... how the heck do these guys make up their patties that dont crack and harden? I know that when a patty is placed over the brood, the warmth and moisture given off the nest keep those patties from drying out and dried up patties is mostly a result from trying to feed a troubled hive, BUT I have seen a product on the market that its patty keeps its consistency even after weeks sitting on the outer edges of the hive. No wax paper to keep it moist, no cluster to keep it moist, its consistency was that of play dough... thats what my patty making goal is.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  3. #23
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    Quote Originally Posted by loggermike View Post
    Its fun to joke about secret ingredients and all, but really , the information is out there.
    yes they are, but not forth coming. Your providing most all you put in your patty, I appreciate that. I wonder if some of the "secret ingredients " is more so illusion? or perhaps they are adding stuff they personally think will help but embarrassed to mention it to other beekeepers? I know when I started talking bout patty recipes on my blog, I hesitated actually stating anything particular because its very intimidating providing your thoughts and actions to thousands of readers
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    Another point about feeding sub that is often missed by those who think bees wont eat good sub. IT HAS TO BE PLACED AS CLOSE TO THE BROOD AS POSSIBLE . Not at the top of a double deep full of honey with the brood in the bottom. Here , in late winter, that means breaking open the boxes and putting it right over the early brood that is getting started. Keith Jarret has a good video on youtube showing the right way to do this.

    This isnt directed at you, Ian, but all those I see on here who say bees just waste sub and will not eat it. My bees will eat sub even when there is plenty of good pollen available! But such feeding is a waste of course.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    > BUT I have seen a product on the market that its patty keeps its consistency even after weeks sitting on the outer edges of the hive<

    Better ask Keith that one,lol.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    2,064

    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    I didn't post links to common recipes because I thought they where well known.

    Here is Hackenbergs

    http://hackenbergapiaries.org/pdf/Pr...y%20Recipe.pdf

    His recipe is geared to fit his needs.
    I took some cues from him.
    Higher sugar content to promote rapid consumption to combat SHB.
    I think he also believes that something about whole egg powder deters SHB, so that is used in place of dried egg yolk. I haven't tried yolk alone yet.
    Soy is left out with the feeling that SHB prefer it and it's properties tend to create a patty that dries out rock hard. I found this to be true. I add soy isolate.
    Hackenbergs recipe calls for honey, I believe the intent was to not only add to attractiveness but moisture, I replaced this and some water with inverted sugar and increased HBH.

    Here is a link to the recipe I started with.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...n+improvements

    It's short of perfect nutrition and I'm still not sure what items will round it out.
    I use cinnamon but can't really find any proof that there is a benefit.
    The protein % is low due to higher sugar content.

    I have a feeling that commercial sub producers are having their protein custom milled and the base is at least in part very different than what you or I could practically obtain.

    Here are a few more interesting links

    http://www.apidologie.org/articles/a.../03/m09120.pdf


    http://www.jas.org.pl/jas_50_1_2006_2.pdf


    http://www.inkcorrosion.org/reports/000592/front.pdf

    http://www.entsoc.org/PDF/Pubs/Perio...c069801284.pdf

    The recipe has evolved and I've replaced and added ingredients they aren't really secrets just my attempt at improvements.
    Last edited by Mbeck; 02-11-2014 at 10:02 AM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,356

    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    Mbeck : I missed that 2nd thread you posted. Interesting.
    Our recipe is always evolving too, as new information on bee nutrition becomes available. The idea is to duplicate as close as possible good natural pollen . No lab analysis here, just trial and error. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

    As for drying out, Mann Lakes mixing instructions on the Beepro bag recommends to NOT use sugar syrup as it dries it out too quickly.I use Prosweet, which Mann Lake delivers. I think the oil helps also.I am happy with the sub I use now, but may up the oil some.

    Also, on the soy , I always stayed away from it mostly using Brewtech yeast from Pat Heitkam. I believe Beepro is a mix of yeast and soy flour. I haven't noticed any problems with it yet. But not sure if its any better than the brewtech yeast based sub.
    Last edited by loggermike; 02-12-2014 at 08:24 AM. Reason: added info plus usual badd spelllling

  8. #28
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,586

    Default Re: Bee-ProŽ Pollen Substitute

    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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