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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    424

    Default 4 or 5 year old queens

    I am not quite sure where the best place is to post this...

    Does anyone know of beekeepers that sell daughter queens from 4 or 5 year old untreated "survivor" queens?

    I realize this is a tall order. Please PM if you like.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,729

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    With good untreated stock I usually see queens replaced in their third year if they are heading a full size colony. If they are in a nuc or are otherwise restricted in their laying, I see a few make it to four. I can't say if I have any five year old queens, the colors for the numbers wrap, but I suspect they are pretty rare. What it comes down to is the limit of how much sperm they can store and how many eggs they can make. When they run out, they are done. They run out sooner when they head a booming colony. If you limit their laying, they might make it to seven...

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterq...#Queen%20Alice
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    151

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    check out Zia Queen in New Mexico - their breeders are survivors of least three yrs.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,740

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    Kirk Webster tracks this by clipping breeder queen wings...alternating left and right by year. I would ask him directly.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    Thanks everyone!

    Michael, yes, I see that pattern too, primarily in my darker lines. Rarely do I have a queen make it into her 5th season, but it does happen. There is something to be said for those old girls.

    I thought of Zia, but was hoping to fin someone that pushes them a little farther.

    Dean, I think Kirk and I talked about his old queens one time. Nothing against Kirk or his bees, but his bees sound a little more spirited than what I like.

    Joe
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    1,231

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    Sent you a msg.
    DarJones - 45 years, 10 colonies (max 40), sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 11 frame broodnest, small cell

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    I just wanted to move this up since I have not had a great deal of response... Are there any treatment free beekeepers out there that produce queens from 3, 4, or 5 year old queens?

    Thanks,
    Joe
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    DesAllemands, Lousiana
    Posts
    218

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    All my breeder hives are usually headed by at least three year old queens that are still making big honey crops. This is usually my #1 trait that I look for in my breeder queens. If she can survive at least 3 years treatment free and maintain a strong hive treatment free she is a keeper.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,729

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    All my breeder queens are at least 2 and many are 3. If they make it to 4 they probably weren't laying enough...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    I have one going into her 5th season, but I don't really sell my queens. She was a Zia virgin. She is also the one I have been breeding from the most.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,729

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    I think most of mine that make it that long were being manipulated in some way that they weren't laying up to their full potential and often that is becaue I was using them for breeder queens.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    You are probably right. I have split her off several times.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,127

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    4 & 5 year queens is a stretch. Especially now-a-days.

    Most of my queens do 2 seasons. An occasional one is still there 3rd season but will soon be replaced.

    As memory serves, I have only personally known one queen in it's 5th year. This was pre varroa and it was a breeder kept in a hive with a few bees and tiny egg laying area. We had to go through and remove supersedure cells twice weekly to keep it alive, but it did expire anyway during the 5th year.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    Mine is plugging away just fine. I have doubts she will make it through this season though. A little shocked she has made it this far.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    504

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    I do know the president of our club in Franklin County Massachusetts does have a few 4 year old Queens they are not really good layers but the reason why he keep so he can get eggs from good Queen mothers the approving 4 year old Queens for him this does not happen very often


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,811

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    We clip alternately, and record on the rear of the hive. Sheri of JK and Sheri is always looking for GOOD older queens, but they are hard to find. Third year are slim, forth, even worse. We had our eyes on one, onkly to have her fail at the last minute.

    Good luck in =your quest. We will keep you in mind as we do first inspection and clipping this spring.

    Roland Diehnelt
    Linden Apiary, est. 1852

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    Roland,

    Please keep me in mind.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    I have one breeder, who is starting her third year, and another who is beginning her second.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    3,033

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    I had 4, 3 year old queens to start off 2013, all of them got superceded at some point during the year, some probably because mite loads got high. I had hopes of one surviving in a nuc but she disapeared sometime in November after heading the nuc since July. That being said, longevity is one of my goals and if any make it 4-5 years, I'll keep you in mind.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,811

    Default Re: 4 or 5 year old queens

    JSL - will do. Mid April? PM me your trait priorities.

    Crazy Roland

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