Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 209
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Ray,

    This would be so were it not the case that mite-managemnt behaviours represent an expense to the colony, and so natural selection has arranged things such when not needed they disappear quickly. This makes them very sensitive to actions that present an environemt in which they are, apparently, not needed.
    You're not noticing (or deliberately ignoring) the elephant in the room. If, say, a third of your bees are being killed by mites in spite of treatment, that represents a very large environmental pressure, any way you want to slice it. Mites are present in almost every hive, whether or not their numbers are reduced with treatment. The bees must cope with this pressure, with or without help. Those that do not evolve resistance or tolerance will not be as well represented in the next generation, whether treated or not, because they will be more likely to die, even with treatment.

    To me, the great drawback of treatment has less to do with genetics, and more to do with the use of blunt force with the accompanying unforeseen consequences to hive biota and bee health.

    There is, it seems to me, plenty of empirical evidence that bees have adapted to pests in the presence of treatment. For example, consider tracheal mites, which were seen as the next bee apocalypse when they first arrived here. In spite of treatment attempts, they no longer seem to be a major pest here.

    Also, I believe it is somewhat easier to be a successful treatment free beekeeper than it was when varroa first appeared. Most feral colonies disappeared then, but they have in recent years made a comeback. Because of the reproductive strategy of bees, it's hard for me to believe that those feral genetics have not affected the commercial stock.

    Treatment is not a perfect panacea. According to the BeeInformed survey, the difference in mortality between untreated hives and treated hives is not so large that one can reasonably say that treatment absolutely precludes selection for mite resistance or tolerance.

    If I may say so, absolutism is just as off-putting among the advocates of treatment free beekeeping as it is among those who believe that treatment can solve every problem.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Amador County, California, USA
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    artifially preserving unadapted strains simply perpetuates the problem.

    How can you not see that substituting systematic brood breaks simple preserves exactly the same bees?

    Mike (UK)
    Mike, I see what you mean and I agree. If they did it naturally that's out of their own adaptation to mites, but doing it for them isn't.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,001

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    The more bees left standing, the more genetic diversity and one cannot keep bees unless one has bees left to keep. My bees are not going to be sacrificed on the altar of moral perfection. I understand what you are saying, but the bees are changing and adapting. No other reason for acarine virtually disappearing. No one treats for it anymore. Many don't need to treat for mites which reflects the bees in their area. My area gets flooded with literally thousands of bees run by commercial operators. Now please explain to me why I need to adhere to your idea of proper protocol?

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Hardin Cty, KY, USA
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    First No one is absolutely wrong what we are discussing is a manipulation that's been around for centuries. A manipulation that works with nature and not against her. Keep screaming "treatments" if we were in fact talking about a treatment I would agree whole heartedly but we are not. Not even the UK guru of sustainable would agree with that( Phil Chandler) and I have many an occasion to but heads with him.

    Now proper forum etiquette requires I agree to disagree, however with that said I sincerely value your opinion and look forward to hearing how it all works out for you.

    Best of luck

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    Your assumption is that the bees a not adapting...
    That depend which bees we are talking about. Take the treatments away from any commercial outfit and most will agree that 90% or so will likely die. the figue is unchanged. that is because in that realm there has been no pressure to adapt due to treatments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    ... and for what ever reason you are not willing to hear what so many have tried to get across.
    For reasons of understanding just what it is that makes adaptation occur. that is: adaptive pressure on a population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    Why wouldn't the bees adapt generationally.
    See above

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    Remember it is not the strongest that survives but rather the one most able to adapt.
    If by 'the one' you mean a colony: well, colonies (individuals) don't adapt. Populations adapt.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    You're not noticing (or deliberately ignoring) the elephant in the room. If, say, a third of your bees are being killed by mites in spite of treatment, that represents a very large environmental pressure, any way you want to slice it. Mites are present in almost every hive, whether or not their numbers are reduced with treatment. The bees must cope with this pressure, with or without help.
    Again you are looking at this from the point of view of a colony. You can't understand adaption, or adaptive pressure that way. You have to look at a population, over time. A 'pressure' on the population, in the form of, say, mites, causes the population to adapt to those mites as a result of natural selection for the fittest strains.

    That is the context, and the mechanism.

    It is that mechanism that you have to copy.

    That, and nothing else, is 'working with the grain of nature'.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Those that do not evolve resistance or tolerance...
    They don't 'evolve' resistance and tolerance is a single colony. To speak of evolution within an indivuidual is nonsense. Evolution occurs in populations of individuals.

    So your sentence ("... will not be as well represented in the next generation, whether treated or not, because they will be more likely to die, even with treatment.) is a nonsense. (I don't mean that in an insulting way Ray, I just mean 'non-sense'.)

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    To me, the great drawback of treatment has less to do with genetics, and more to do with the use of blunt force with the accompanying unforeseen consequences to hive biota and bee health.
    You really do need to get to grips with the language and meaning of basic evolutionary concepts before you try to evaluate the role of genetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    There is, it seems to me, plenty of empirical evidence that bees have adapted to pests in the presence of treatment. For example, consider tracheal mites, which were seen as the next bee apocalypse when they first arrived here. In spite of treatment attempts, they no longer seem to be a major pest here.
    That's probably largely because there was a sufficiently large feral population to work through the problem by natural selection. That has also happened with varroa - except in those places where systematic treatment has prevented it, and continues to prevent it. Don't forget you can take a perfectly good resistant bee population and turn it into a helpless varroa-vulnerable population in just a few generations. All you have to do is create an environment where mite-management behaviours present no advantage.

    In those place in Africa and South America where people are too poor to afford treatment, adaptation to varroa has occured quickly and naturally.

    Treatments are the problem. And deliberate brood breaking has exactly the same effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Also, I believe it is somewhat easier to be a successful treatment free beekeeper than it was when varroa first appeared. Most feral colonies disappeared then, but they have in recent years made a comeback.
    Yes. If you are clear of treatment-dependent stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Because of the reproductive strategy of bees, it's hard for me to believe that those feral genetics have not affected the commercial stock.
    As most commercial queens are raised intensively with no effort whatsoever to raise varroa resistance, no. Systematic treatment at the breeding yards (as well as exclusion of feral blood) ensures treatment-dependent queens go out in their millions.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Treatment is not a perfect panacea. According to the BeeInformed survey, the difference in mortality between untreated hives and treated hives is not so large that one can reasonably say that treatment absolutely precludes selection for mite resistance or tolerance.
    That sounds like something written by someone who didn't understand the basics of evolution. Got a link?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    If I may say so, absolutism is just as off-putting among the advocates of treatment free beekeeping as it is among those who believe that treatment can solve every problem.
    Ah, 'absolutism'. "If I hold Ray underwater for 20 minutes he will definately, undoubtedly, drown. I'm absolutely sure about that.

    Got a problem this time?

    Nature has rules Ray. They can't be broken. That's why you can call them the 'Laws of Nature'

    'Populations of organisms adapt to their environments' is one of them.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    The more bees left standing, the more genetic diversity and one cannot keep bees unless one has bees left to keep.
    Vance,

    In nature most swarms perish in, or before, their first winter. That's how they stay healthy. Lack of genetic diversity is said to be a problem in US commercial stocks. Unsurprisingly, given their methods. Nowhere else as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    My bees are not going to be sacrificed on the altar of moral perfection.
    Its got nothing to do with morals. Its about understanding how things work, so that you understand how particular actions affect things further down the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    I understand what you are saying, but the bees are changing and adapting. No other reason for acarine virtually disappearing. No one treats for it anymore. Many don't need to treat for mites which reflects the bees in their area. My area gets flooded with literally thousands of bees run by commercial operators. Now please explain to me why I need to adhere to your idea of proper protocol?
    You don't. You can do what you please. All I'm trying to do is point out that artificial brood breaks systematically used to keep unadapted bees alive are exactly the same as chemical treatments in their effect on future bees. That is, entirely negative. Part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    For that reason they shouldn't be included in the 'treatment free' section - which, in its ethos, is about trying to repair the bee population, not about simply finding other ways to perpetuate the problem.

    That's a fact, whether you or anyone else likes it or not. I'm not asking you to like it. I'm not saying don't do it. But I am saying, unless you can explain otherwise, please accept it as a fact.

    I agree with you, US ferals are developing/have developed resistance. So have other bee populations all over the world. Everywhere, in fact, except where beekeepers have prevented it by presenting a non mite-pressured environment (that is, by treating - one way or another).

    The ferals succeed because they don't allow the mite-vulnerable to reproduce. They allow the most resistant to reproduce in the greatest number. Period. Copy their method.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Thacker View Post
    A manipulation that works with nature and not against her.
    Duncan,

    Nature is natural selection for the fittest strains.

    Anything that obstructs that process cannot possibly be regarded as 'working with nature'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Thacker View Post
    if we were in fact talking about a treatment I would agree whole heartedly but we are not.
    What we are talking about is an action that has precisely the same effect as a treatment.

    Consider this. You cut your hand. You wash it, put antibiotic cream on, and then cover it with a plaster.

    Which of those three actions was a treament and which wasn't? Is it the case that all three were independent 'treatments', yet at the same time the whole operation was also a 'treatment'?

    The fact is we make up these categories, and classify things in the most convenient, or useful, way. What I'm saying is that washing and putting a plaster on - no chemicals - can be considered as 'treatments'. And likewise can brood breaks.

    If we don't say that we're in a position where all non-treatment approaches are working with the grain of nature to allow natural resisance to repair the lack of adaptation to varroa, except one. Deliberate brood breaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Thacker View Post
    Now proper forum etiquette requires I agree to disagree, however with that said I sincerely value your opinion and look forward to hearing how it all works out for you.

    Best of luck
    I'm grateful for the opportunity Duncan, and I hope this makes my position a little clearer.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,194

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Ah, 'absolutism'. "If I hold Ray underwater for 20 minutes he will definately, undoubtedly, drown. I'm absolutely sure about that.
    Apparently Mike has never heard of breathing through a hollow reed while underwater. People have been doing that for centuries.

    The problem with 'absolutes' is that many of them can be broken. Under the right circumstances, of course.


    So your sentence ("... hold Ray underwater for 20 minutes he will definately, undoubtedly, drown. I'm absolutely sure about that.") is a nonsense. (I don't mean that in an insulting way Mike, I just mean 'non-sense'.) *



    The fact is we make up these categories, and classify things in the most convenient, or useful, way. What I'm saying is that washing and putting a plaster on - no chemicals - can be considered as 'treatments'. And likewise can brood breaks.
    However, as defined in this forum, brood breaks are not treatments.





    *see post #46 for context of this use of 'non-sense'
    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 02-06-2014 at 08:41 AM.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,205

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Mike, good morning. I appreciate the effort you spend explaining your position it is very clear what you believe. I think it is important to point out that we in the US are in a different position to beekeepers in the UK and the rest of the EU. The EU has the benefit of the whole genome of the honeybee available and individual country borders are not a barrier to the transmission of varroa resistant bees.
    I just reread part of Brother Adam's "Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey", have you read it? In the preface he points out that adaptation to Acarine occurred because at Buckfast Abbey they had Italian cross-bred bees which were resistant to it. The British bees died out and Buckfast sent their bees around and replenished the country's stocks.
    As I see it there is nothing natural about beekeeping in the US, the insect is not native to these shores, the plants we have over here are a mix of aliens and natives perpetuated by how well they are suited to the conditions they survive in. Brood breaks are a natural phenomena. The use of brood breaks is no more unnatural than any other part of beekeeping. If we are to reject the use of brood breaks and splitting then we perhaps also should reject the use of supers and honey collection.
    In the purest use of "natural" would not Mike Bispham, Adrian Quiney, and all other beekeepers have to sit out, stop keeping bees, allow them to find their own cavities and adapt or die without human interference? That is not an option that anyone is considering as viable, particularly here in the US.
    It is possible to develop varroa resistance, Russian bees and Africanised Honey bees are the most resistant i have heard of. If large scale resistance is to develop it seems to me that it is more likely to take place in the EU than anywhere else because that is where the bee has the biggest gene pool to pull from.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Canada BC Delta
    Posts
    436

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    That depend which bees we are talking about. Take the treatments away from any commercial outfit and most will agree that 90% or so will likely die. the figue is unchanged. that is because in that realm there has been no pressure to adapt due to treatments.
    So you assume that I am talking about commercial outfits that treat? I'm not, but I am talking about making increase from resistant stock. From this the best is selected. You seem to be bunching everyone together. If you cannot see the usefulness of this management tool and the ways it can be applied, I doubt you ever will.

    So we can leave it at that and agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Delta Bay; 02-06-2014 at 08:31 AM.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Quiney WI View Post
    In the purest use of "natural" would not Mike Bispham, Adrian Quiney, and all other beekeepers have to sit out, stop keeping bees, allow them to find their own cavities and adapt or die without human interference? That is not an option that anyone is considering as viable, particularly here in the US.
    Adrian, That's a big fat red herring.

    Nature works as nature works. If you want to roll a big boulder, its always easier to roll it downhill than uphill.

    If you want healthy bees follow nature's primary health mechanism.

    If you want throw spanners in the works of nature's primary health mechanism, then carry on using treatments or brood breaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Quiney WI View Post
    It is possible to develop varroa resistance, Russian bees and Africanised Honey bees are the most resistant i have heard of. If large scale resistance is to develop it seems to me that it is more likely to take place in the EU than anywhere else because that is where the bee has the biggest gene pool to pull from.
    It will develop whever beekeepers stop throwing spanners in the works. Diversity isn't an issue. It'll happen faster, and with less loss, whever it has a head start (feral populations, bred resistant bees)

    If you want to be involved in the solution, start with promising (resistant) genetics and take care of them. For that you'll need a selective breeding strategy. And you'll neeed a reasonable understanding of the mechanisms of evolution, and/or the traditional methods of husbandry.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  13. #53
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    So you assume that I am talking about commercial outfits that treat? I'm not, but I am talking about making increase from resistant stock. From this the best is selected. You seem to be bunching everyone together. If you cannot see the usefulness of this management tool and the ways it can be applied, I doubt you ever will.
    I'm not making that assumption at all. I agree brood breaks can be a useful tool - in, and only in, the context of a breeding strategy designed to support the raising of resistance to varroa.

    It can, and is, used outside that context, as an alternative to chemical treatments. There it is just as efficient as chemical treatments at reducing resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    So we can leave it at that and agree to disagree.
    All I'm trying to do here is bring the mechanisms into the open so we can see what the effects of this action - unmodified by a breeding strategy - is. Only then can we ask ourselves if this is what we want to be doing.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  14. #54
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Apparently Mike has never heard of breathing through a hollow reed while underwater.
    Do you really think I've never heard of that Graham? Do you really think I've never heard of scuba diving, or diving bells or submarines? (For your interest, I first read about breathing through hollow reeds in around 1963. At a guess you weren't even a sparkle in your father's eye.)

    The point of a thought experiment is to illustrate something, and that relies on the readers accepting the conditions at face value.

    You miss the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    However, as defined in this forum, brood breaks are not treatments.
    Read carefully:

    I am making arguments in favour changing that situation.

    Is that so hard to grasp?

    It may not help, but let me explain further:

    It is commonplace in all areas of study - including science - that as new facts come to light, and new ways of looking at things are seen to be useful, the meanings of key terms shifts. So there is a continual process of inventing new terms, and adjusting the ways in which existing terms are used, in order that they can continue to be used meaningfully in light of the new circumstances. There is even a description for the process: 'precising the terms'

    Do you see what I'm driving at? Nothing is fixed in stone. We can offer to reconceptualise in new ways, and every time we do so we have to accept that meanings shift into alignment with the new context.

    I am arguing for that sort of shift. I don't want the meaning of a word or phrase to change, but I do want the category in which it is currently seen to belong to change.

    I want brood breaks, outside the context of a breeding strategy, to be seen for what they: a substitution for chemical treatments because they have exactly the same undesirable long term effect.

    Please don't bother telling us yet again that brood breaks are, here, in a particular category. We know that already!

    The object of the discussion is to question whether that is wise choice, in light of the facts that are being aired
    .

    Mike (UK)
    Last edited by mike bispham; 02-06-2014 at 09:24 AM.
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Canada BC Delta
    Posts
    436

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    First off, many beekeepers need a why to get off the chemical treatments then maybe there's a way to move forward.

    I'm not making that assumption at all. I agree brood breaks can be a useful tool - in, and only in, the context of a breeding strategy designed to support the raising of resistance to varroa.
    Then talk about the useful ways that it can be used.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    1,656

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    Then talk about the useful ways that it can be used.
    ...with great care, as part of a well thought out breeding strategy aiming to raise resistance...

    See my earlier post:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...45#post1055145

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  17. #57

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTheBeekeeper View Post
    I plan on making 2 splits per hive in late March - early April (original colony should have about 6 frames of brood and 20 frames of bees, divide that by 3).

    Would this be at all effective to control varroa mites for a while? looking.
    Making splits gives time to the bees, it definitely helps them a lot. But in the end it is not enough for a permanent solution. That is in short my experience.
    Three reasons why come to my mind:
    - theoretical mathematical example: hive with 10 mites in spring, 50 mites in mid summer, 200 mites in the autumn (20x increase in one season)
    If we split one hive into two in mid summer, each part get 25 mites. There will be 100/hive in autumn. So it is half what there would be without spitting.

    - the second reason is the possible, even short, brood breaks, which will be caused by making nucs/splits

    - the third is somewhat speculative, but very many beekeepers find that there is some "good happening" in the hive just because they get a new queen. It gives them new energy, boost.
    Treatment free, honey production, isolation mated queens, www.saunalahti.fi/lunden/varroakertomus.html

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Hardin Cty, KY, USA
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    I want brood breaks, outside the context of a breeding strategy, to be seen for what they: a substitution for chemical treatments because they have exactly the same undesirable long term effect. Mike (UK)
    To satisfy that request one could wait for the swarm and hive it. The hive divides anyway and the need for increases and the colony's urge to swarm are all satisfied. The rest of your request can be satisfied by not interfering with natural selection.

    does that sum it up?

  19. #59
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,872

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    In my experience, brood breaks were pretty worthless around here for me, even multiple ones.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Can splits control mites?

    I'm sure Mike believes whatever he believes quite sincerely, but I can make no sense of it. Selection occurs whether or not bees are treated-- there is no way to avoid it. There's no magic suspension of the process just because some condition or other in the hive has changed. If the major pressure is varroa, and a large percentage of colonies in an area succumb to varroasis then selection occurs no matter what the beekeeper does. Treatment does not eliminate mites. Those colonies which possess genetics that favor successful coexistence with the mites have a reproductive advantage over colonies with more vulnerable genetics whether or not they are treated.

    I think it's reasonable to surmise that bees can develop resistance faster if left untreated. That's what Beeweaver did to get their mite-resistant bees. It took a few years, but obviously it was a much faster process than any progress made toward resistance in ordinary commercial stock.

    It might also be a reasonable surmise that treated bees are being selected for more than mite resistance. Beekeepers who treat might be selecting for bees that can both resist mites, and survive treatment with acaricides. This is probably an outcome that is much less than optimal, because resistance to acaricides probably has a significant cost, in metabolic terms.

    I have no idea why Mike thinks brood breaks are a treatment, when it is a natural strategy used by the bees themselves for millions of years before there were any beekeepers. That beekeepers have channeled this natural reproductive behavior into a procedure for making increase without the possible loss of swarms does not make it a treatment. Despite Mike's insistence that this is a treatment that precludes selection for mite resistance, I don't believe he has outlined any plausible mechanism for this. Why would a brood break in the course of making increase have any effect at all on selection for mite resistance? All bees do this. If the beekeeper helps them to do it in a way that least inconveniences the beekeeper, what, precisely, is lost?

    And in any case, how can beekeepers make increase in a more or less natural manner without a brood break? I suppose one could raise queens and put them in new splits, but then the argument could be made that you are doing the colony's work for it, to the bees' detriment, and selecting for bees that can't make their own queens. In fact, that fairly silly notion is quite a bit more plausible than the idea that brood breaks somehow, by some mysterious process, subvert evolution.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads