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  1. #61
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddawg View Post
    the old 113 saws, would the arbor on this one be different?
    Not familiar with that saw. I had a 10" Craftsman back in the 70's but don't know what model it was.

    The owner did not give an exact measurement on the arbor just 'a little over an inch', when I go look at the saw Friday I should have about 1 5/8 distance from the mounted blade?
    No, you should have about 1-5/16" from the mounted blade IF you use a stabilizer bushing next to the nut. If not, the 1" should just about do it depending on how wide the nut is. Rader says his is 5/16" wide. Maybe ask the guy what the measurement of the arbor is past the nut with a mounted blade on it.
    Regards, Barry

  2. #62
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    I agree with Barry's suggestion. If a regular blade is already mounted, and you want to verify that a 3/4" dado stack set will fit, all you need is an additional 5/8" of arbor thread beyond the end of the nut.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  3. #63
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    I would be most concerned with the diameter of the arbor then the length. Stacked blades can be off balance because they are independent blades. The worst thing you would have to do is take two passes. Just because you put a 3/4 stack on the arbor doesn't mean you have the HP to push it through. Staked blades require much more HP than a variable dado, just so you know.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  4. #64
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Staked blades require much more HP than a variable dado, just so you know.
    Do you have a reference to support this?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  5. #65
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    Dec 1999
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    In that case Ace, I think he should be concerned about the HP, not the dia. of the arbor. It's only on newer saws that the arbor dia. has changed. Yes, stacked dado will required more HP. Less vibration with stacked dado. I've used both but have only had stacked on my own saws. In the end, one has to decided what they are and are not willing to live with given the particular tool's limitation.

    OK, after seeing Rader's post, I take back my "Yes" until further notice. Although I can see a case made for both sides of this one.
    Regards, Barry

  6. #66
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    OK, I'll stick my neck out. Why should a stacked dado require more HP than a wobble dado?

    If there is no wood being removed (before any cut) the HP to rotate the blade should be the same, isn't it? Then when you start cutting the rate of travel through the board is dependent on HP available, but why should that HP requirement change with blade style?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  7. #67
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    3,012

    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-...-dado-set.html

    Scroll down to just below the video and you will find the comments on blade size vs. HP of the saw.

    1.5 HP or less go with a 6 inch dado set. 1.75 HP and more and you can go up to the 8 inch stack set.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #68
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Thanks for that explanation, DY. It makes sense that a larger diameter blade is capable of cutting wood faster than a smaller diameter blade.


    But I submit that HP required is a function of the amount of wood removed in a given time period. A larger diameter stacked dado allows the user to feed the board faster than a smaller dado, and that is why more HP is appropriate.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  9. #69
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    But I submit that HP required is a function of the amount of wood removed in a given time period. A larger diameter stacked dado allows the user to feed the board faster than a smaller dado, and that is why more HP is appropriate.
    With a wobble blade, only a single tooth width (1/8") of material is being removed at any given time. There are what, 12 to 18 teeth per blade rotation? Spread this out over the width of the cut (3/4") and each tooth is working pretty hard. With a stacked, you have the same blade type except you have two of them and all the teeth are removing material from the same 1/8" spot. So 1/4" of material is being removed far easier, and the chippers give you two teeth per revolution, which is probably equal to what a wobble gives you. I'll retract my "Yes." Ace?
    Regards, Barry

  10. #70
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    In that case Ace, I think he should be concerned about the HP, not the dia. of the arbor.
    They are one in the same. As the HP increase so too will the diameter of the arbor.

    Barry, use common sense. Rader doesn't have any. A variable dado cuts a 1/8 path through the wood regardless of its setting. A stacked dado cuts what ever the stacked width is. To make matters worse the stacked dado will gum up in sappy woods like pine because it doesn't have the chip clearance that a variable dado has and most likely the blades are dull. The blades are dull because they are not carbide tipped and people are going to avoid sharpening them because of the expense.

    Tell me something. Do you see burn marks on the side of your dado cuts. If you do it is because the blades are dull OR the arbor diameter is too small and the arbor is bending. If the arbor snaps because of fatigue you won't be able to duck fast enough.

    Seriously, I would not recommend someone with little experience use dado stacks on home owner type table saws. I know they sell them.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #71
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    With a wobble blade, only a single tooth width (1/8") of material is being removed at any given time.
    That is exactly why the HP required is so much less. It is basically the 1/8 blade the saw was made for.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #72
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    If you do it is because the blades are dull OR the arbor diameter is too small and the arbor is bending. If the arbor snaps because of fatigue you won't be able to duck fast enough.
    Ace, are stacked dado blades available to fit arbors smaller than 5/8"?

    Seriously, I would not recommend someone with little experience use dado stacks on home owner type table saws. I know they sell them.
    Homeowner type saws? How do you define this?
    Regards, Barry

  13. #73
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    That is exactly why the HP required is so much less. It is basically the 1/8 blade the saw was made for.
    Width is only one element that is in play here. The number of cutters (teeth) per rotation is another.
    Regards, Barry

  14. #74
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    I didn't see any explanation of horsepower required for different styles of dado blades in post #70!






    ... common sense ...
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  15. #75
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    It has a lot to do with the weight of the stack and what it takes to get it going. once started a stacks weight starts to work to it's advantage. Then think of the wide cut you are making. if you get right down to exactly how a dado is supposed to cut you find out it is not as bad as it might seem. A dado is made to make that cut in a series of cuts. not putting to much resistance on the saw at one time. My new to me saw will moan a bit while trying to get a full stack turning. once up and running it does just fine. I have an 8 inch set. Saw is just a tad under powered for it but not so much I cannot deal with it.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  16. #76
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    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    1,842

    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Acebird... I rarely use an adjustable dado, but, it is my understanding that the adjustable dados do not cut nice flat grooves, but rather the seat of the groove is rounded. Has that been your experience with them. I have never tried them all that much, when I did, having a flat groove was not important for what I was doing.

    cchoganjr

  17. #77
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    The number of cutters (teeth) per rotation is another.
    No the number of teeth does not make much difference. The diameter of the blade will change the torque required which affects HP. HP = torque X speed (RPM). The feed will affect torque and this is where the number of teeth come in. So if you have less teeth you feed the wood in slower otherwise each tooth takes a bigger bite.

    I don't know what is available today but some blades use to have bushing inserts.


    Acebird... I rarely use an adjustable dado, but, it is my understanding that the adjustable dados do not cut nice flat grooves, but rather the seat of the groove is rounded.
    Yes but who cares for bee equipment? It will just pocket more glue. What you don't want to do is set the warble for 3/4 width and make a rabbit joint only 1/2 inch by cutting off the end of the board.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
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    1,211

    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    No the number of teeth does not make much difference.
    Teeth on a saw blade primarily determine the fineness of the cut and how much shear force is exerted in the wood. More teeth equal less splintering, cracking, and shearing. Some wood I've cut required 60+ teeth to get a good cut. Plywood often splinters badly if regular blades are used. This is why plywood blades typically have very high numbers of teeth.

    I've used a 16 tooth blade on my tablesaw to cut pine, but prefer between 24 and 36 teeth for most woodwork. If I were building furniture, I would want 36 teeth or above, especially if the wood splintered easily.

    A very sharp blade reduces hp required. This is one place where I see a lot of mistakes. Either keep your blades sharpened or purchase new blades that are super sharp. It will save a ton of time and effort and reduce risk of injury when cutting wood. I save old carbide tipped blades for cutting down supers and such where nails are likely to be hit. This is the only time I deliberately use a blade that is not in excellent condition.
    DarJones - 44 years, 10 colonies (max 40), sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 11 frame broodnest, small cell

  19. #79
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    > Acebird... I rarely use an adjustable dado, but, it is my understanding that the adjustable dados do not cut nice flat grooves, but rather the seat of the groove is rounded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Yes but who cares for bee equipment? It will just pocket more glue.
    Adjustable (wobble) dados will produce a rabbet that has a cupped bottom, as Cleo noted above.

    Ace seems to think that a cupped bottom to a joint makes no difference to joint strength, but that is not borne out by testing. The link below is a Fine Woodworking test of various glues, and it is clear that the strongest glued joint is a tight fitting joint.

    With the exception of hot hide glue on maple, all glues were slightly weaker on loose joints compared to tight and snug ones.

    http://www.oldbrownglue.com/pdf/HowS...urGlue_FWW.pdf
    Any joint with a cupped bottom (i.e. made with a wobble dado) will not be as tight fitting as it would be if the dado had a flat bottom (i.e. stacked dado).
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Prescott Valley, AZ
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    17

    Default Re: For those who build your own, which table saw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I do it all the time as a stop block. Nothing dangerous at all. You should learn.
    The reason it's not done is that it's likely that the cutoff will pinch between the fence and the blade, which will either send the cut off piece flying back at you at the speed of light right into the family jewels, or bend the blade, rendering it trash.
    Using the fence as a stop is fine, but clamp a piece of scrap to the fence to give the cut off someplace to go without getting launched.

    As for a specific table saw, that's like asking what ice cream someone likes.
    Chevy, Ford, or Dodge?
    All have pros and cons.
    Personally, I like heavier cabinet type saws.
    Why? They generally cut cleaner, straighter, and are easier to tune.
    A well tuned saw will cut a glue line edge. That's an edge that you can glue up to make a panel, and not have a ghost glue line in the finished panel.
    Not so important when you're building painted items, but very essential when making furniture.
    Direct drive saws? Scrap metal in my opinion. Someone decided to flip a circular saw over, bolt it to a table, and call it a table saw.
    If you cut material that's thick, or hard, you'll bog it down and burn up that motor.
    For weekend warriors, that's one thing.
    Cast iron table is essential. The slots in the table are very useful for homemade jigs and fixtures when you need to make a bunch of identical parts, true miters, and angled cuts.
    Get the longest fence you can.
    A long fence makes ripping full sheets of plywood easier, and your cuts will be cleaner and straighter. Fighting with a 40 pound sheet of plywood on a contractor's saw isn't fun.
    Get enough power for what you're doing.
    3hp is generally adequate for most woodshop tasks. I've run smaller, and I've run bigger, and yes, bigger is definitely better.
    In the end, though, it's your choice, based on needs and budget.
    Get as much saw as you can for the money you have available.
    You'll be happy you did.

    On the topic of blades, assuming a 10" blade, a 36 tooth is a good general purpose type blade.
    It will do everything you ask of it, but it really doesn't excel at anything.
    For ripping, I like a 40 tooth thin kerf.
    Cross cutting, I like a 60 or 80 tooth.
    When I had my furniture shop, I kept a 40 tooth in the tablesaw, and an 80 tooth in the miter saw and a 60 in the radial arm saw.
    I always kept 2 or 3 extra blades on hand for each saw, freshly sharpened and ready to go.
    That way, if I trashed a blade, or dulled one out, I had a backup and wasn't running to the store 50 miles away.
    Most folks get acceptable results from a 40 tooth blade across the board.
    It all depends on the level of precision you're looking for, and what you consider acceptable.

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