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  1. #21
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    Jun 2011
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    Campbell River, BC, CA
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    484

    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    To change our farming practices would require a tremendous shift, which would mean we would need alternative options.
    This is the problem with most 'activist' causes. They make lots of noise regarding 'we want change', or 'this must stop', but bring no viable alternatives forward. It's all based on the squeaky wheel principle, the wheel that squeaks loudest (in the press) will get the political attention, and politicians are a completely reactive breed, reacting only the the stimulus that comes from headlines and/or ballot boxes.

    The real sad part of some of this, a 'celebrity endorsement' will go MUCH MUCH farther in affecting opinion, than any amount of scientific study on the subject. This is another detail that has not been lost on many activist groups.

  2. #22
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    Feb 2010
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    She's in the middle of a four year study, so I doubt that she'll make the sample locations public just yet.

    There's always the danger that someone will deliberately contaminate the site.

    If she's using the same area from a previous study, it's west of Saskatoon and north of Regina.

    http://www.traceorganic.com/2013/pre...2013_WCTOW.pdf

  3. #23
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    WLC , is that link the work she is referring too?
    Last edited by Ian; 01-12-2014 at 08:15 PM.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    It must be, her name is cited within the credits

  5. #25
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    Feb 2010
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    It's a presentation on one of her previous studies.

    By the way, please edit your post to read 'WLC'.

    Let's try to maintain some etiquette here.

  6. #26
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    groveton tx
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    129

    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    I didn't go to the ahpa meeting but johnathan lundgren was in the list of speakers. I saw him speak at the south dakota meeting and was super interested in his take on pesticides. He said that these pest insects adapt so quick that after a few years ddt didn't even kill mosquitoes.

  7. #27
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    I am interested to hear the findings in her study, if it falls along this presentation WLC provided the study of wildlife between wetlands contaminated and not contaminated should help paint this picture

  8. #28
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Ian, she may have changed her sample locations.

    However, once she made a public announcement that she had found contamination, it's far more likely that the WSA and even the pesticide/seed companies involved will want to do their own sampling for corroboration.

    It has to be done.

  9. #29
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    Apr 2010
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    Tipton, TN, USA
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    784

    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Quote Originally Posted by Haraga View Post
    I will tell you straight up that I am not changing my farm practices. That is what puts the food on the table. If I have evidence that my bees are in danger of dying, I move the bees. It's that simple.
    Did the farmers using DDT say the same thing? Somethings are more important than an extra ??% harvest...
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  10. #30
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Ian, she may have changed her sample locations.

    However, once she made a public announcement that she had found contamination, it's far more likely that the WSA and even the pesticide/seed companies involved will want to do their own sampling for corroboration.

    It has to be done.
    absolutely it has to be done.
    objectively... I hope so
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #31
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    Jan 2005
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    the system remains flawed in its recordkeeping

    http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Envir...ration-system/
    and more "bee protection" courtroom activity is coming in 2014

    http://www.lexology.com/library/deta...b-c2e833e835b5

  12. #32
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    oh if there are flaws, I think we can all be certain that there are groups that will not rest til they are acted on
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #33
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    here is a snip from a conversation I had with a neighbour about this story;

    >>>To the best of my knowledge their study involved nutrient loading, so I don't believe there would be any herbicide samples taken. I think I still have their emails so I can ask, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

    The Morrisey story strikes me as very odd for a couple reasons. It's a 4 yr study and she's only 1 1/2 yrs in, which means only one sampling season. Usually before any of our results are publicized the study is completed, reports are finalized and peer reviewed for errors. With only one year of data, I would be very surprised to see anything other than a very preliminary report, and I doubt there has been any time for much of a peer review. We're still waiting on lab analysis from last yr's samples. It makes me wonder if she is jumping on the current anti-neonicotinoid bandwagon to increase her funding for the next 3 yrs.<<<

    this is the exact reaction I had when I first heard it broadcaster by our national broadcaster. They seem to be jumping the gun, for what reason exactly? funding?

    The first sentence is about an on going study of wetlands currently taking part partly on my farmland. I asked him if this studdy was related to the Morrisey study as they are both from the same school
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #34
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    I have to admit I haven't looked for any of her other work, as when I first read this one, when I read the following statement.

    Morrissey said preliminary data suggests just what she suspected: an apparent decline in mosquito and midge populations, which could have serious ramifications for birds.

    doing a study they shouldn't bee looking to support what they suspect.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  15. #35
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    I've thought about the 'going public' issue.

    There's a chain of command in academia which includes the institution and the source of the grant.

    If I were in that position, I would have started with my department chairman, and then further up in the institution.

    The right government agency to contact would be the WSA.

    However, I don't know why she went public, or if she has institutional support for doing so.

  16. #36
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    Apr 2011
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    Sacramento, Calif. USA
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Morrissey told the reporter: "We all want to have food that we consume and enjoy. But at what cost?" Morrissey wonders. "Is that at the cost of having no more birds around? Of having no more butterflies? Having no bees? People are thinking about that now."

    That's typical alarmist talk we have seen over and over again from young academics. It works well too because if you follow the career paths of young alarmists, many of them advance to associate and full professor positions within 5-10 years.

    The neonic seed treatments are used at a rate of about 5 gallons per square mile = 640 ounces per 640 acres = 1 ounce per acre = a laughably tiny amount.

  17. #37
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    Nov 2004
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    Camarillo, CA, USA
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Then BlueDiamond , maybe you should try it in your food at that rate, maybe then you wouldn't make an uninformed asinine comment!

    Ca dept of pesticides did a well know test on 5 trees on a golf course in Sacremento area about 5 years ago, a one time use of neonics delivered systemicly, 5 yrs later, each blooming season since, most all insects that visit tree during bloom die.

    One of challenges with neonics is the residuals stay around for years.

    And my biggest concern outside my bees is what's in the food we eat!

    I posed that question to the CA pesticide dept. at the CSBA in November at Tahoe meeting, Their quote , its outside there scope to test for residual toxicity in the fruit we eat.
    Larry Pender,Jubilee HoneyBee Company,Camarillo, CA

  18. #38
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDiamond View Post
    The neonic seed treatments are used at a rate of about 5 gallons per square mile = 640 ounces per 640 acres = 1 ounce per acre = a laughably tiny amount.
    Sure seems implasuable. I seem to recall that neonics have a pretty short half-life (like 30 days) in water, which would seem to suggest that accumulation wouldn't be much of an issue. Where would it be coming from prior to planting season? I sure hope that we can get some real definitive answers.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  19. #39
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
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    369

    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    The chemical companies do not want residuals in their product. They want you to keep applying their product year after year. Chemicals that kept killing weeds or bugs season after season would save the farmers a lot of money.

  20. #40
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    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: NEONICATOIDS ..........And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you

    Quote Originally Posted by LSPender View Post
    Ca dept of pesticides did a well know test on 5 trees on a golf course in Sacremento area about 5 years ago, a one time use of neonics delivered systemicly, 5 yrs later, each blooming season since, most all insects that visit tree during bloom die.
    and they found the level of neonics in the tree leaves to be? since golf courses are the highest user of pesticides in the USA per acre, I also would guess that they tested for the other pesticides also? if I remember bluediamond is from CA some he may have some information on the test.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

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