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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    5,938

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Well, Dan, you did say "the least energy efficient ". Electric heat applied at the point of use, like a baseboard heater, is indeed 100% energy efficient, all the time. ALL of the electricity used is converted to heat.

    That is quite different than whether electric resistance heat is "cost efficient". In order to determine that, you have to evaluate the cost of all alternatives, like natural gas, firewood, propane, coal, etc.


    Even a heat pump may not be as efficient as baseboard heat in extreme cold. The resistance elements in a typical heat pump (used when its so cold the pump is inefficient) are not located in the living area, so some heat is wasted.

    It all "depends".
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,344

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    I'd like to get Barry, Mark, Brian (Acebird) and a few other Beesource regulars on the boat and take them out tuna fishing all day. I'd video everyone and post it as the
    Let me know when the boat trip is and I will figure out where roy is.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgolden View Post
    I'd much prefer to blow up a thumbnail
    Way to start the year wining.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
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    333

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Natural gas is almost always cheaper these days. Most electric is made from this source, and nuclear is close behind. Coal is on the way out. We take that energy and convert it electricity and sell it to you. I'm not just basing this on working for an electric company, I pay less today to heat my house with gas fired hot water baseboard than I did a condo over 30 years ago with baseboard electric resistant heating and this house is twice as large. Yes, it's just as cold here. In the deep south, where do don't need heat often, it may make sense since the installation coasts are low. Is there anyone out there above the Mason Dixon line that wishes they had baseboard electric resistance heat, who actually has another system that works? It's Ok for spot heating, but I can't see using it for an entire house.
    Dan Boylan, At it since 2007 in Pa Zone 6B, 13 hives, 6 nucs, treat when needed.

  4. #84
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    Apr 2009
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    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,344

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    [QUOTE=shinbone;1038281]I know this is off-topic from the original post's subject, but since someone touched on this issue:
    watching me hive a newly purchased nuc in my rooftop apiary. Notice how shiny and new all the equipment is, including my bee suit .[QUOTE]

    How do you get a forklift up on that roof to move the hives?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    really?? we go form light bulbs to a whine fest on pictures??
    Aparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Reynolds View Post
    ah man and I just broke one today. Oh and how we never thought about them until they are no more.
    What are they going to do to heat the easy bake ovens? What about the next generation of cooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPBsbees View Post
    Natural gas is almost always cheaper these days. Most electric is made from this source, and nuclear is close behind. Coal is on the way out.
    Barry would certainly get me if I pointed out that this prez is the reason coal is headed out.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    426

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Graham you are right, I was trying to compare energy efficiency vs cost efficiency, just not as well as you.

    Dan the source for most our electricity is hydro and it is relatively cheap up here - about $0.07 per kwh. My heating system is an open loop geothermal heat pump with a COP of 4 so electricity becomes very affordable. OT for incandescents and electrical resistance for heating I guess.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    charleston, wv, usa
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Someone mentioned the continued availability of "rough duty" incandescent bulbs. Mother Earth News has been warning of the toxicity of these bulbs to poultry because of the Teflon coating. The heated coating gives off a gas that kills birds, just like an overheated skillet. What M.E.N. is trying to get is a warning label put on the package to advise people.
    "SERENITY is realizing that the bees know what they are doing, even when you don't..."--thenance007

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
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    333

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Martens View Post
    Graham you are right, I was trying to compare energy efficiency vs cost efficiency, just not as well as you.

    Dan the source for most our electricity is hydro and it is relatively cheap up here - about $0.07 per kwh. My heating system is an open loop geothermal heat pump with a COP of 4 so electricity becomes very affordable. OT for incandescents and electrical resistance for heating I guess.
    Allen, It looks like you have your eyes wide open. That's all I'm saying. I'm sure there are many ways we can save energy. My clean wood stove is cooking away. Hydro is not available much in the states. Electric can be a good source, and my company is trying to be as clean as possible. I'm just trying to say, when we get it to your house try to use it wisely. That heat pump, and other techs like it, are wise uses of it. This thread started with people mourning about an invention of Thomas Edison. I grew up in the state he invented the light bulb in. We can do better than something that was invented in 1879.
    Dan Boylan, At it since 2007 in Pa Zone 6B, 13 hives, 6 nucs, treat when needed.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Ground , Washington, USA
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    747

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    i just bought 16 60watters at lowes for about 5 bucks. I better get a few more.
    I'm not tense, Just terribly, terribly alert!

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,344

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Quote Originally Posted by BGhoney View Post
    i just bought 16 60watters at lowes for about 5 bucks. I better get a few more.
    Yes you should Because, We can do better than something that was invented in 1879. I just got 6 cases of 16 and I will be getting more soon. I say &*T* those *)(U)(U&&^)*U)( and burn incandescents. I am tired of the Man telling me what I can and cant do based on which way the wind is blowing.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Forget CFL's. I realize those were "the" alternative when the DC of manufacturing incandescents was passed, and a lot of people had legitimate gripes about CFL's because they had some problems of their own; but technology has marched on.

    LED's is where it's at, guys. For a not really that-much-higher price all things considered, you get the much, much longer life, and significantly lower energy use versus incandescents. And unlike CFL's, LED's come on instantly, don't contain toxic chemicals that require special disposal, and are widely available in "warm" white - a more incandescent-like tone; no need for that sterile and depressing cold-white of the flourescents in your living space.
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    45,889

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    >We can do better than something that was invented in 1879.

    There are a lot of things invented in that era that I don't think have ever been improved on.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Columbia, Missouri, usa
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    204

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    For years I have used 40 watt bulbs to warm our horse waterers during the winter. Yes, the waterers are made with heating elements; but when the element burns out and needs replaced, the cost is almost $75 per element plus an hour of my time. The 50 cent bulbs produce enough heat so that the element s hardly ever heat up.

    another example of " I'm from the goverment and here to help" NO THANKS
    Charlie
    14 hives - 5 years (also had 7 hives in early 1970's) T as needed - zone 6

  13. #93
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    45,889

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    >For years I have used 40 watt bulbs to warm our horse waterers during the winter.

    Where is the bulb? Certainly not in the water?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    It's important to note that "heavy duty" bulbs and other special kinds of incandescents aren't affected by the phase-out and will still be around. If you gotta warm your horse waterer with an incandescent, you can keep doing that...
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    829

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Just an FYI. . . There are chemicals in the LED's also. They've not been tested properly I understand. CFL's? if you like mercury in your diet they're fine. I don't have a problem with offering any of these along with other options. The big problem I have with this and other things is that the power / s at "be" are trying to tell me what I can and can't do in my house. That's my beef!!!

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Columbia, Missouri, usa
    Posts
    204

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    MB - Our horse waterers have an area under the water pan where the pipes and electrical are placed. As long as I keep this above freezing, the water above is usually ok down to about 10 F.

    Mill. The rough service bulbs are ok, but cost $2.50 or more. My electric bill for the barns alone cost about $100 per month - being a retired electrician, I do whatever I can to keep the usage down.
    Charlie
    14 hives - 5 years (also had 7 hives in early 1970's) T as needed - zone 6

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Shelby County Al
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    "We can do better than something that was invented in 1879"

    When was foundation invented? <GG>

    Just think, it improved from 4.x mm wide cells to something like 5.8mm cells then back to 5.4mm.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,289

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    I'd like to get Barry, Mark, Brian (Acebird) and a few other Beesource regulars on the boat and take them out tuna fishing all day.
    How did I miss this post? Now that would be a treat unless the group decides to throw me in the Pacific.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,736

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    Happy New Year to you too Mark. LOL, I am a total Party Pooper. I go to bed at 8:00. Got up at 3:00 to make the old man some sandwiches for the road. Tuna sandwiches of course!



    I'd like to get Barry, Mark, Brian (Acebird) and a few other Beesource regulars on the boat and take them out tuna fishing all day. I'd video everyone and post it as the
    "Beesource Reality show". Watch out Duck Dynasty... Bound to be hilarious. But Who gets the skipper hat, who gets the Gilligan hat, who is the professor and who is Marryanne?

    I GOT ONE!! I GOT ONE!! I GOT ONE!!!

    If you want to see a grown man giggle, sell him a big fat queen or let him hook a big fish in the ocean.
    Well, physically I'm more the shape of skipper than Barry or Brian are. But ocean fishing doesn't agree w/ me so Lauri would get a lot of footage of me chumming over the side, not w/ my pals.

    I'll stay on land and clean the catch.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Countdown to the ban on incandescent

    Quote Originally Posted by delber View Post
    Just an FYI. . . There are chemicals in the LED's also. They've not been tested properly I understand. CFL's? if you like mercury in your diet they're fine. I don't have a problem with offering any of these along with other options. The big problem I have with this and other things is that the power / s at "be" are trying to tell me what I can and can't do in my house. That's my beef!!!
    Ah but they're not. Nobody is stopping you from going out right now and buying a thousand incandescent bulbs and using nothing but them in your house after the "ban" for as long as you live. The light bulb police will not come to your house and arrest you!

    The powers that be are only telling light bulb manufacturers what they can manufacture. Which they've been doing all along anyway; so no real change there.
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

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