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  1. #1
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    Default Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Forgive me for my ignorance, but I believe playing the devil's advocate is important before committing oneself to any cause, despite being a beekeeper myself. I'm wondering why the EPA continuously approves neonicotinoids despite implications that they are a major cause of Colony Collapse Disorder. We cannot assume everyone in the agency is stupid or corrupt, especially when they are so concerned with the protection of the environment and wildlife.

    What's yall's take on as to why the approval of the insecticide recurs?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Because there is no direct evidence that neonics cause CCD? And nobody knows what catalyze means? There is no bee apocalypse. Censuses show an increase in colony numbers in recent years.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Lack of caring and Greed.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    drmanhadan:

    There are a group of beekeepers, and friends, who have currently filed a legal challenge to the current EPA pesticide approval process.

    Let's hope that they're successful.

    http://earthjustice.org/news/press/2...ling-pesticide
    Last edited by WLC; 12-26-2013 at 06:05 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    A catalyst is like an accelerator, activator, or some material that starts a larger reaction.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    A flawed process, especially one that approves large numbers of pesticides, may as well be thought of as a catalyst.

    The flaw isn't in the science.

    The flaw in the EPA pesticide process has been identified as the individual managers who are each responsible for a pesticide product and it's approval.

    They're the 'catalyst'.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Because there is no direct evidence that neonics cause CCD? And nobody knows what catalyze means? There is no bee apocalypse. Censuses show an increase in colony numbers in recent years.
    So what's all the hype about? Are the studies linking CCD to neonicotinoids bull?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Neonics are known to suppress the Honeybee's immunity to viruses.

    That's the problem.

    A recent study by di Prisco, et al., has found the molecular 'smoking gun'.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Quote Originally Posted by drmanhadan View Post
    So what's all the hype about? Are the studies linking CCD to neonicotinoids bull?
    CCD sells newspapers and magazines.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    CCD is affecting the big beeks though right? I mean feral numbers could go up, which is why the EPA wouldn't be as concerned, but the domesticated population must be suffering enough to cause major concern.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    You're new, aren't you?

    Believe half of what you see and none of what you read. Not even here.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    You're new, aren't you?

    Believe half of what you see and none of what you read. Not even here.
    A couple years in with one suburban hive. Quite new, but isn't that just denial of CCD as a serious issue?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    CCD seems to have largely burned itself out for now.

    However, I still remember the Am target sequence I identified.

    I would say for many, neonics are still a problem.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Tell me what CCD is and what causes it.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Tell me what CCD is and what causes it.
    Haha I can't get into specifics, but I guess that's your point. Havent you had any personal experience/known someone who has suffered from CCD?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    The consensus is that it's caused by a suppression of the Honeybee's immune system.

    In the U.S., it's believed to be caused by a strain of IAPV.

    I've tracked it down to Ago 2 knockdown by a sequence carried in the 'zero' strain of IAPV.

    However, we now know that neonics can suppress the Honeybee's immunity to viruses.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    I have lost boucoop numbers of hives. Saying that CCD caused it I can't. Varroa/virus more likely. But maybe that is what CCD is. I don't know.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    It's easier for people to find a flaw in reports and tests and discard it, rather than to do something about it.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    There is not a direct cause and effect connection between the use of neonics and CCD, and I believe there is some discussion about the reality of CCD itself. After all, beekeepers lose hives all the time for a variety of reasons, and the introduction of mites and small hive beetles have caused the loss of a vast number of hives, sometimes in a way that is very difficult to pinpoint. PMS can take what appears to be a very healthy hive and covert it to a hive full of stores but empty of bees in early winter, and a poor pollen season in August can do much the same thing.

    Feral hives seem to be increasing in my area, so the bees are adapting to mites, but we shall see what they do with small hive beetles as they are just showing up. However, some large operations are still reporting large losses (50% and up), but from what I've read, they seem to be the same ones fairly often and are large scale migratory keepers, at least the ones that show up in the news, and that's a different thing than what I do. Moving hives has to be stressful to the bees, and proper protein nutrition can be a real problem on things like almonds and blueberries, again this can cause serious losses in winter if the proper protein supplements are not given at the right time.

    Now, the EPA approval procedure, if that's what you want to call it, for neonics was terrible, and they are being used as seed treatment to "enhance stand density" rather than being applied for control of a specific pest. I would not personally permit broadcast use of any pesticide as a preventive in the absence of a specific target -- I'm not a farmer, I don't make any money off them or the farm products, and they are POISONOUS, not innocuous substances. Bayer also appears to have been pretty sloppy in their environmental assessments and we have gotten some nasty surprises in terms of soil buildup and persistence that were "unanticipated" (meaning Bayer didn't look very closely).

    Peter

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Why knowingly catalyze a bee apocalypse?

    Neonics have all but stopped random spraying of pesticides, Thats a GOOD thing, not bad. Of course neonics are bad for bees, so is too much water, or too much cold, or gasoline... The key is application. I live in the middle the most hevily Noenics in the world... My hives are in good shape.... No uneplained losees, and yeilds that are well withing normal.

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