Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Bethel Park, Allegheny County, PA
    Posts
    27

    Default Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    I am a newbe and am planning for my bees in the spring. I want to give my package every help I can and thought about adding Honey-B-Healthy to the syrup while I am feeding them. Does that really count as treatment free? Not that I care about labels but there are things said by experts such as Michael Bush about the essintial oils killing helpful microbes that the bees need. Does anyone have a helpful idea about this? Have you used the product and would you recomend it to me. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    Should be a sticky at teh top of the forum that gives you a complete definition.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee, USA.
    Posts
    397

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    It technically is not treatment free. Truly T.F. is a bogus word. Kind of like organic. "Ya, we feed our bees 100% organic crude oil"

    Then on the flipside feeding sugar is a treatment. Once again bogus term.

    Pollen subs, Sugar syrup, HFCS and sucrose are all unhealthy for bees and lower their immune system. anything natural like premium essential oils Lavendar, eucalyptus, and mints are of benefit, especially against both forms of nosema.

    Feeding syrup is unnatural but necessary if we want to increase hive numbers and prevent unnecessary losses on poor years.

    It is a tool. As are essential oils.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,858

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    The sticky is up at the beginning to outline what fits the prescribed treatment free protocols. If you want to declare your apairy and your practices as treatment free, the protocols give clear and precise guidance.

    Personally, I like HBH and have reworked the recipe for a homemade version. The original commercial product has gone through some revisions, first coming out as a treatment for mites....but golly, that means it's an unapproved pesticide. The labeling changed to calling it a feeding stimulant, but really, do bees need to be stimulated to feed?

    Nevertheless, I still like it and use it, but I'm not qualifying myself as treatment free as the forum has laid out. And yes, anything added to the hive has a side effect, whether intended or not, whether benign or detrimental. I see the ideal of going treatment free is to get away from these side effects. Even "natural" products cause problems. Even "organic" doesn't always mean "safe," i.e. formic acid.

    I can tell you with great confidence, that feeding HBH does have a nasty side effect of inciting robbing, so if you're going to feed, reduce entrances and don't feed nucs in a yard with strong hives. Experience is a harsh teacher, but she's seldom contradicted.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/377477 for the home made recipe
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    With no disrespect . I wish to answer the question:

    but really, do bees need to be stimulated to feed?

    Yes, a pure sucrose solution will not be very attractive to bees, no odor or flavor. Beekeepers have been adding flavor since way before mites, mint, anise, and heated honey(to kill pathogen spores) being used in the far past.

    Crazy Roland

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Ashland County, Wi. USA
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    IMHO if we add anything that they can't get on their own, it's not treatment free. If they can't get in in nature, we should do everything in our power not to give it to them.

    In the case of feeding, for starter hives and to get through winter, IF WE HAVE TO, we should. Dead bees are no good to anyone in this case.
    let him labor, working with his hands, that he may have something to give him who has need.." Ephesians 4:28

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,055

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?


    Then on the flipside feeding sugar is a treatment. Once again bogus term.
    Feeding is feeding, not treating. Treatments refer to medications and anything applied to a colony to artificially control a pest. Medications are used to address a disease problem. So, we have FEEDING, MEDICATING, and TREATING. All three different things, done for different reasons. Generally speaking Treating and Medicating would disqualify one from claiming Treatment Free Status. But it isn't like there is a Review Board to Certify your personal claims.

    Seems to me like if you apply HBH to try to control nosema, then that's a treatment. Don't ya think?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  8. #8

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Reynolds View Post
    It technically is not treatment free. Truly T.F. is a bogus word. Kind of like organic. "Ya, we feed our bees 100% organic crude oil"

    Then on the flipside feeding sugar is a treatment. Once again bogus term.

    Pollen subs, Sugar syrup, HFCS and sucrose are all unhealthy for bees and lower their immune system. anything natural like premium essential oils Lavendar, eucalyptus, and mints are of benefit, especially against both forms of nosema.

    Feeding syrup is unnatural but necessary if we want to increase hive numbers and prevent unnecessary losses on poor years.

    It is a tool. As are essential oils.
    I think essential oils are treatments.
    Treatment free, honey production, isolation mated queens, www.saunalahti.fi/lunden/varroakertomus.html

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,140

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    So Kamon when you pour out a bowl of cheerios what exactly are you treating yourself for?
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,055

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    Cheerios says cholesterol. Least wise that seems to be what they are implying in their adds and on their boxes.

    Rice Krispies squares are a different kind of treat[ment].
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,594

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    We've already spent time hashing this out before coming up with what is and is not a treatment for this forum. Please accept that for this forum whether you agree or not.
    Regards, Barry

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Bethel Park, Allegheny County, PA
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    Thanks everyone, I checked out the sticky today and saw that the answer was there, ha. But to tell the truth I like having input from others; I think that's what this is for. Thanks

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baker Oregon
    Posts
    2,462

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwards View Post
    I can and thought about adding Honey-B-Healthy to the syrup while I am feeding them. Does that really count as treatment free?
    As Barry said there is a definition for the purpose of this forum. This is the only place the definitions hold water. TX free is what you define it as, just don't expect everyone to agree with you and I see it more as a spectrum instead of black and white. Do what you wish in your own hives, I think far to many people get hung up on the definition (outside of the forum).

    Welcome to Beesource and beekeeping, it is a fun and sometimes frustrating hobby. However that makes it worthwhile.
    Dan Hayden 4 Years. 12 hives. Tx Free. USDA Zone 5b.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,570

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    >Does that really count as treatment free?

    Semantics are always up to you what you mean by a term or a word but it is helpful for the same of communication to agree at least somewhat what we mean by something so we can communicate clearly.

    As already pointed out, for the purposes of this forum the definition on this forum is the scope of the topic on this forum. So it does not count as treatment free for that purpose.

    For the purposes of conversation, it is also helpful to have a definition and it seems to me that by any measurement using something that kills off all of the microbes it comes into contact with, and something you are intending to kill microbes is obviously a treatment. The fallout for killing microbes can be quite negative not only because of it's effect on obvious things like the fermentation of bee bread but also the microbes in the gut of the bee that protect it from other microbes. If an antimicrobial additive to the feed isn't treating then what would you say is treating?

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0033188
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Bethel Park, Allegheny County, PA
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    That is one thing I really wanted to know; that it kills benificial microbes. It seems that that wouldn't be worth any benifits.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee, USA.
    Posts
    397

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    So Kamon when you pour out a bowl of cheerios what exactly are you treating yourself for?
    I actually David can't eat cereal because it lacks certain nourishment that keeps me from having blood sugar issues.

    Giving yourself cherrios is like pollen sub you can live on it but your body will be more stressed with it than with something balanced, less processed, and not spray with chemicals.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Bay Minette, AL. USA
    Posts
    225

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    I just want to chime in on this. When I started my hives three years now I wanted to do what I could to ensure that the got a good start and didn't want to use chemicals on them. Now the definition on here is this forums own definition which a few decided what was treatment free. I have not used any type of chemical or by that any sort of trap for beetles. I went all foundationless from the beginning and loving that decision. I did though at the beginning go ahead and use essential oils to the sugar water to ensure the had a good feed at the beginning. Now three years they have never been fed since the first four months. I do splits without feeding them either and have been one hundred percent on every split. I have very very strong hives but the are pretty calm until I steal the honey. I also only have used pine needles and wood from what I have picked up off the ground for my smoker fuel. Now my question to you is are my hives treatment free three years down the road because I used essential oils at the beginning to give them a little head start?
    Let bees be bees.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO United States
    Posts
    401

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    Dont bee crazy

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Ashland County, Wi. USA
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    beecrazy101....Good job. I'm glad to hear your testimony! Really!. From the very get go, I'm only feeding when an EMERGENCY and have one piece of Foam in the cover for insulation...should clarify that on the top of the hives, I have dry sugar to act as a moisture barrier and it also will provides EMERGENCY food ....IF....they run out of honey.
    let him labor, working with his hands, that he may have something to give him who has need.." Ephesians 4:28

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,570

    Default Re: Using Honey-B-Healthy, is it still treatment free?

    >a few decided what was treatment free

    All the users on the forum were encouraged to discuss it and they came up with a general consensus. It was not a few.

    > Now my question to you is are my hives treatment free three years down the road because I used essential oils at the beginning to give them a little head start?

    Or in spite of it? What makes you think it was a head start?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads