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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,898

    Default Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    I was moving around supers in my cold extracting room (California cold), and several foundationless combs broke with the slightest of bumps. Luckily I approach these new fads with great caution and only have a few foundationless cut comb leftovers.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Maybe I'm just lucky, but none of mine have broken, not even after being in the freezer. I also string my frames with monofilament.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    I also string my frames with monofilament.
    There's your winning point.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,012

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    I have had that happen right out of the hives while the comb was full of honey and covered in bees. As for this one. A little melted wax on the seams and it will be right as rain. I have actually re attached comb on a top bar that way once.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    1,522

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    There's your winning point.
    Love the mono-filament, used it on wax foundation before switching to plastic.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,113

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Quote Originally Posted by burns375 View Post
    Love the mono-filament, used it on wax foundation before switching to plastic.
    What is mono-filament, where do I get it and how to use it?
    Lawrence Heafner
    15 hives; 15 years; TF for 10; Zone 7B

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,138

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Fishing line. How are others fastening it. Stapling lets some loose.

    Starting separate thread.
    Last edited by Saltybee; 12-22-2013 at 07:10 AM.
    4 yrs, Peak 14, back to zip, T lite; godfather to brother's 3.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    monofilament is fishing line, if I am not mistaken 10# is what people use. It is strung on the frames much the same as wire although I have seen it used in an x pattern as well. I have tried monofilament a few years ago but I still prefer wire.
    Bill...in Southeast Ohio

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Santa Rosa County, Florida
    Posts
    406

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Fatbeeman has instructions on youtube.Monofilament does break, but rarely in my experience.By the time the break occurs the wax has usually hardened enough to resist breakage.
    54+ years 30 colonies Treat using Hopguard and essential oils
    http://99-40.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    hinesville ga usa
    Posts
    359

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    I have used mono fishing line for five years and plan to continue using it. For a deep frame I drill a very small hole on the upper side leg near the top, I then cut a 7 1/2 ft piece of fifty pound test line and run one end through the small hole and tie a knot, I then run the line through all the other (wiring) holes and tie it off near the bottom.
    Ten pound line is a real problem, they sometimes chew though it and does not have enough surface area to hold the comb well, fifty pound is much better, also you can stand the frame upright, hold the bottom "side leg" with your foot and stretch the line so tight you can play a tune on it, after you get used to doing it you can tie one every two to three minutes.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Quote Originally Posted by stan.vick View Post
    Ten pound line is a real problem, they sometimes chew though it and does not have enough surface area to hold the comb well, fifty pound is much better,
    That would explain why my experience with mono-filament concluded with the bees chewing it up, 50# would definitely be the way to go.
    Bill...in Southeast Ohio

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    odfrank,
    I wanted to reply to your original post, it would appear to me that your comb did not have very much cross section to it, in other words the cells were not drawn out at the point where the comb broke off leaving it very fragile at this juncture. The comb is a darker color in the area of breakage indicating that it was used by the bees so I would need to ask; if it was used by the bees why is it thinned out with no drawn cells at the break line?
    Bill...in Southeast Ohio

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    873

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    I tried some of the super strong and thin micro braided line and as stan.vick says, the cross section is too small and it just cuts through the fresh comb. I was decapping drone cells and the thin line started cutting the comb in strips. Big fat old monofiliament gets a grip on things! Easier to knot or wind around a nail and pound in like Fatbeeman does.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    I'm lazy, so I just run 2 strands of the stuff through the frame and knot it to itself at a hole, Because the line slips, you can get it banjo tight with just your hands. Then I dab a little Titebond on the knot to stabilize it. You can do a couple frames every minute, just sitting and watching TV. I haven't had any come loose yet
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,898

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Quote Originally Posted by WWW View Post
    odfrank,
    I wanted to reply to your original post, it would appear to me that your comb did not have very much cross section to it, in other words the cells were not drawn out at the point where the comb broke off leaving it very fragile at this juncture. The comb is a darker color in the area of breakage indicating that it was used by the bees so I would need to ask; if it was used by the bees why is it thinned out with no drawn cells at the break line?
    It probably was scratched and extracted. It was a cutcomb frame not fit for cutcomb. I had to sort two hundred honey supers looking for the newer combs for a new special brood chamber. Many of my verticle wired combs date back to the late '70s.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Whitla Ab. Canada
    Posts
    428

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    I plan on doing my foundationless this way, has anyone else tried it?

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...bamboo+skewers
    A Bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it rains.- Robert Frost

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    It probably was scratched and extracted.
    Ok, that would explain the condition of the comb, I was just trying to get to the root cause of damage, thanks.
    Bill...in Southeast Ohio

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,898

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    >I plan on doing my foundationless this way, has anyone else tried it?

    My friend who is an extreme cheapskate does that. What is the time and material cost savings over wiring? You have to buy the skewers. Are they cheaper than grommets and wire? You have to cut and insert the skewers. How much time are you saving? The same goes for mono-filament line IMHO. What is the savings and benefit over the proven method of using wires?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    873

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    odfrank I dont think there is much cost savings over wire. It has the advantage if you want to cut out queen cells or cutting out drone comb.

    I think oxalic acid treatments may be hard on wire where it is exposed but have not noticed any breakage in three years but do see some of it looking less than shiny.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Whitla Ab. Canada
    Posts
    428

    Default Re: Another disadvantage with Foundationless

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    >I plan on doing my foundationless this way, has anyone else tried it?

    My friend who is an extreme cheapskate does that. What is the time and material cost savings over wiring? You have to buy the skewers. Are they cheaper than grommets and wire? You have to cut and insert the skewers. How much time are you saving? The same goes for mono-filament line IMHO. What is the savings and benefit over the proven method of using wires?
    I can get the skewers at the dollar store for a $1 per 100 and the time is something I have lots of this winter. I'm just interested in the durability of them and all my frames are homemade so I would have to drill holes etc.
    A Bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it rains.- Robert Frost

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