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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Dayton, OH
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    73

    Default Economists Take on CCD

    I caught this on a podcast I subscribe to. Its two economists talking about research on the economic effects of CCD. Their understanding of bees and beekeeping is pretty rudimentary, but their discussion of economic studies of honeybees and the pollination industry is really interesting. The basic conclusion is that beekeepers' innovations and procedures are the only thing protecting Joe Consumer from CCD and higher food prices; in other words we suffer so others don't have to.

    The link is http://www.econtalk.org/archives/201...thurman_o.html

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee, USA.
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    397

    Default Re: Economists Take on CCD

    Interesting talk. I think it is not respectful the amount of (well it impacts the beekeeper but as long as he is the only one pulling his hair out its all good)

    I think chemical ag needs to take a step back. If they want to treat fine but do it at a time these bees are not impacted. Like the almonds.

    Thanks for the link interesting.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
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    1,505

    Default Re: Economists Take on CCD

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Reynolds View Post
    I think chemical ag needs to take a step back. If they want to treat fine but do it at a time these bees are not impacted. Like the almonds.
    What does that mean?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
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    1,505

    Default Re: Economists Take on CCD

    A very good talk overall. Given from a professor style view that is.

    From some of the answer that where given I really don't think he has even remotely walked in the shoes of a commercial beek.

    His inability to answer the 2nd to last question stating "here I talk but really don't know what I'm talking about" is a prime example. How many commercial beekeepers here would be unable to answer a question as to the "average pounds of production per hive" a hundred years ago compared to today. Same, more, less???? Seriously!!!!!!!!!

    Good to hear someone speak positively from a Hayekian economic theory as opposed to all the Keynesian trash thrown our way the past while.

    Anyone who speaks against Pigouvian style taxes as we are being bombarded with in the global warming battle (through "carbon offset taxes" ) gets at least a B+ in my book.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Jasper, Texas, USA
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Economists Take on CCD

    Under articles read "Colony CollaPsE disoRdER: ThE maRkET REsPonsE To bEE disEasE" Same guy wrote a paper just about the same as the interview.

    He has several graphs of queen prices, package prices, pollination prices, and hives kept. Please have a look at queen and package prices he came up with. I don't think they are anywhere near what I have seen happen over the past 10+ years. He created a messed up set of data then drew conclusions from it.

    He is hung up on 2007 being the very beginning of CCD. Even though his own chart of pollination prices show a huge spike in 2005-2006. Come on. Seriously? Pollination went from $50 to $135 in fifteen months and he specifically argues sick bees had nothing to do with it!

    He gets some of the conclusions right. We can survive some of the higher losses of bees. But he thinks its because making splits is cheap and easy. Splits happen after the pay day. We survive because prices are up.

    He manages to miss the fundamental economics principle; too few bees causes the price to rise and a higher price leads to more people trying harder to provide bees for that higher price.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Jasper, Texas, USA
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Economists Take on CCD

    Duplicate.

  7. #7
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    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    2,812

    Default Re: Economists Take on CCD

    Honet-4-all wrote:

    How many commercial beekeepers here would be unable to answer a question as to the "average pounds of production per hive" a hundred years ago compared to today. Same, more, less???? Seriously!!!!!!!!!+++

    We can not even answer that one, our records only go back to the late 30's.

    It is unfortunate that those that speak as an authority often have not done the homework, and therefore are not an authority.

    Crazy Roland

    P.S. We can guess that National honey production actually went up per hive after the invention of the truck. Our records show that 2 yards of 50 hives made twice that of 1 yard of 100 hives.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    1,232

    Default Re: Economists Take on CCD

    Our records show that 2 yards of 50 hives made twice that of 1 yard of 100 hives.
    Saturation of bee forage generally occurs at about 40 to 50 colonies in a single location. I've read some old records from the 1890's where people bragged about making 120 pounds from a single colony. I also have family recall (i.e. my grandfather told me of helping rob his grandfather's bees in the 1920's) of getting 2 or 3 quarts of honey per hive when they were in crossbar boxes.
    DarJones - 45 years, 10 colonies (max 40), sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 11 frame broodnest, small cell

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