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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,452

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    Kevin: I do something similar in that we operate a breeder/cell builder yard of around 100 huge handpicked hives in a single location. It's not in a nectar rich area (by design) but heavy pollen flows are common. Despite having only moderate nectar flows through most of the 6 week season we typically supplement with a gallon of approx. 1:1 feed every 5 to 7 days plus keeping a steady diet of pollen sub. as an aid in diluting any possible yellow jasmine pollen that may get brought in.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,068

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    I really only have one number that has been required. That would be 1 to 2 gallons of 1:1 sugar water per hive for placing them on almonds. that would amount to 8 to 16 lbs of sugar for a one month to 6 week period of build up. keep in mind that almonds are consider exceptional forage for brood building as well and I have no idea how much additional stores they woudl get from them. I suspect that 2 gallons of sugar syrup is only intended only to get them kick started on the build up as the orchards come into bloom. At one point last summer I was goign through 50 lbs of sugar every 7 days while starting 11 nucs. That was for about a 2 to 3 week period.

    I am also interested in further information on just what it would take to fully artificially support a colony.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,601

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I am also interested in further information on just what it would take to fully artificially support a colony.
    Why would one want to fully artificially support a colony? On another Thread you wrote that you wanted to make some profit from your hives this year. Seems like feeding something that aught to be able to feed itself wouldn't be economical. But maybe things are different in NV.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    I think I understand Kevin's interest in the logistics of supplemental feeding.

    Perhaps you could get a good approximation by providing an excess of full honey supers for some test colonies, and then track the weight differences of those colonies during the course of a year.

    It'll not only give you a clearer picture of when the flows are on, and feeding isn't needed, but it will also give you an idea of how much supplemental feed you may want to provide at other times.

    However, without pollen sub, I don't see how you can track potential colony productivity.
    Last edited by WLC; 12-22-2013 at 06:07 AM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,328

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    > be 1 to 2 gallons of 1:1 sugar water per hive for placing them on almonds. that would amount to 8 to 16 lbs of sugar

    Since one half the weight of 1:1 is sugar and the other half water, 1 to 2 gallons of syrup represents 4 to 8 lbs of sugar.
    Graham
    --- Practical reality trumps philosophy!

  6. #26

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    200lbs. You will need food for bees, brood, wax production and storage for winter. I over load my yards in MS and there is plenty of pollen but not a lot of nectar. I both open feed in Drums and feed in the hive. You will be amazed how they will grow when you have feed on them all the time.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Why would one want to fully artificially support a colony?
    Because for this yard... Honey is not the goal... Maximum production of bees and queens will be... Ideally, all of the hives would require zero feeding and put up just enough food to survive.... However, since I believe that is something that I don't know... I "could" assume that I'll be feeding them. If it works out to 1 quart every 3-4 days, which is what my 5 frame nucs take down in the are really hungry. I can account for that in my budget.

    I may find that it doesn't work out cost wise, or it could be with a steady supply of feed. Those same bees will double/triple+++ in size... If that is the case, then I'll slow the feed when maximum yard size is reached..

    I have an rough plan on what to do...

    I'm just assuming that more of the professional guys have a better idea... I.e. it cost me this much sugar per yard for this month of while sitting in a holding yard...
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    Quote Originally Posted by rainesridgefarm View Post
    200lbs. You will need food for bees, brood, wax production and storage for winter. I over load my yards in MS and there is plenty of pollen but not a lot of nectar. I both open feed in Drums and feed in the hive. You will be amazed how they will grow when you have feed on them all the time.
    Is this a rough number? Syrup or sugar? Since your feeding from barrels... I'm assuming that's a 55 gallon barrel placed in a yard... is it 3k lbs to a barrel? How fast to the empty it and how many hives are in the immediate area?
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,601

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    Thank you. That makes sense. Something I had not thought of. To grow colonies and the comb they need. I c. I don't feed a lot, so it is not something I think about in the manner you presented.

    Maybe the almond pollinators can give u an answer.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    In my honey yards... They get just enough to survive... Then in the winter, I feed the ones that I can pick up and leave the rest to their own devices...

    This is just a different aspect that I want to try... I'd much rather sell 200 queens a week/month, than 800 bottles of honey in the same time frame.... But I've never a heavy retail person.
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  11. #31
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    IF you think that way, colony growth would be limited by the queen only. Bees gather when its available, non stop. all night with hive top feeders. they never "stop cause the don't need more" so your real answer depends on how you limit the queen and take away comb...

    I am NOT a TF freak, but I am not sure I would want bees, queens or not, raised this way.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: How much Sugar per hive, if no nectar.

    Then I'd assume that you don't want any bees? I'd guess that the majority of bee "producers" are feeding their hives/nucs, both syrup and pollen supplement.... I just don't really see that they get the numbers soon/fast enough by any other method.

    Now whether I feed 24/7 365 is an entirely different story.... And I don't believe you are 100% correct on the all night long hive top feeders..... I have seen "significant" feed takeup by the bees when they are in a dearth... And the same bottle will sit on the nuc for weeks during the flow. Now is that because they don't want it? Are busy dealing with the stuff they gathered that day? I don't know, but I do know that I've had feeders on light nucs that I thought needed to be fed where the syrup molded before they took it... During the dearth, it wouldn't lasted the week.

    I'm not suggesting that you gather honey from these fed hives... Again the purpose is the building of bees.

    Additionally, under no circumstances am I suggesting that bees be "selected" from this yard... They will just be gown out there. I'd also consider it a "good" indicator how the queens "could" perform.. i.e. if they can't lay out 2 boxes of bees with constant feed, then they weren't very good. If they lay out 5 boxes of bees, then maybe that queen mother some be looked at a little closer.
    Last edited by KevinR; 12-22-2013 at 10:27 AM.
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

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