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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Indian River, Florida
    Posts
    232

    Default Another bee kill from spraying?

    On Friday a local commercial citrus company sprayed 1500 gallons of Admire mix on their grove that is located about 1/2 mile from my bee yards. One of my three local yards sits on my own property where my home is located. On Saturday I was inspecting my bees and noticed a massive amount of bees dead and dying near the entrance of each hive. 100% of my hives in this yard were showing the same signs of a major poisoning. I immediately went to my other two locations and the same thing was happening. The total number of hives was almost 100 in these three yards and all were being killed by this suspected poisoning.
    I immediately notified the grove company and asked them to come take a look, they accepted my invitation and I showed them the problem. They admitted spraying the Admire at a label rate, which I don't believe, and told me that they had done a application that differed from previous applications, in as much as this was a different supplier for the chemicals.
    I also called the police to have a report filled out as to document the event. The sheriff ranch and grove were quiet helpful in handling my request. I am quiet disturbed by this incident, I cannot even keep bees on my own property without being subjected to massive kills by harsh chemicals that are being sprayed by citrus growers at an alarming rate.
    First thing in the morning I am contacting the State Of Florida bee inspector and reporting the incident. I have also gathered samples of dead and dying bees for their evaluation. Some of the dead bees had their pollen sacks full of pollen from Spanish Needle flowers. This is a indication of direct contact with the chemical as the bees were gathering food.
    I have refused to give the grove company any samples of the dead bees or any sugar water that I have been feeding. I plan on giving these items to the state inspectors for their testing. I have advised the grove company to contact their chemical rep and report this incident ASAP.
    There is another commercial beekeeper that located 160+ hives within 1/2 mile from me and I have contacted him as well to advise him of this situation. I truly hope that he has not suffered the same consequences as I have.
    I will keep all you posted as to the outcome of the test results. Hopefully the grove company will step up to the plate and do the right thing.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    3,033

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Are the trees in bloom now?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    2,058

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    a post from bee-l Dr Jerry bromenshank about how to collect the dead bees.

    http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/w...&F=&S=&P=21586

    Now, for some tips.

    If any of you find what looks like a pesticide kill:

    1) Get an independent person to take the samples - not you, or your family, or friends.
    2) Freeze the sample(s) as soon as possible and keep it frozen.
    3) Ship to an analytical lab on a weekday, preferably not Monday, and never on a Friday - the samples will have a better chance of showing up at the lab in good shape, less chance of getting lost.
    4) Keeping sample(s) frozen during shipping is best. Blue Ice gel pacs may be ok at this time of year, but in heat of summer, dry ice is far better - if you can obtain it.
    4a)Never ship on regular ice - it will melt and the melt water is likely to seep into the samples, contaminating them.
    4b) Dry ice sublimates, and the sublimation is faster in humid conditions. The rule of thumb is 10 # of dry ice will last a full 24 hrs, maybe more. Anything less and the dry ice may be gone before the samples are received, checked in, and put into freezers at the lab.
    6) COUNT the number of bees in each sample of dead bees, record the number, and ask the lab to analyze all of the bees in each sample. That way, when you get the residue analysis results, you can readily convert the reported value to the amount per bee.

    NUMBER 6 is CRITICAL. It is the easiest way of getting results that you can compare to LD50 values. You can ask a lab to dry the samples before analysis (but if they use too high a temperature, some of the more volatile pesticides may be lost). You can ask them to count out and dry a subsample of each bee sample, and then use value that to estimate the amount of water in the analyzed sample. But, to save them work, and to save you from extra charges, just count the bees in each sample before sending. Just don't contaminate the samples when you count. We put down a sheet of aluminum foil or plastic wrap, pour out the sample onto the sheet, move bees around wearing an untalced latex or nitrile disposable glove, pour from sheet back into sample vessel. Then, change gloves and sheet, do same for next sample.

    A bit of work up front will provide far better results in the end.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
    Posts
    7,098

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    The correct path in Florida is to call your Bee Inspector who will assist AES in taking samples. AES will run the samples and use the results in their investigation. Even if you find every toxin in the world in a sample you take and send for analysis it is invalid in Florida. The state needs a valid chain of custody as most legal cases do.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Indian River, Florida
    Posts
    232

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Unfortunately the State doesn't work on weekends. Westerfelt has been contacted and AES is being called. I am very cognizant of the sampling procedures, I will be sending my own samples as well.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,271

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Don't work on the weekends? Seems like a case where an Apiary Inspector would make an exception. Here in NY Apiary Inspectors were told not to schedule inspections for Sundays, but we could still drive or do paperwork on Sundays. But it's Monday now, so I hope someone is out there collecting samples as I write this.

    Best wishes.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Indian River, Florida
    Posts
    232

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    No the trees are not in bloom!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    2,058

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Don't work on the weekends?
    must have a better union than you guys had in N.Y.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,620

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by broodhead View Post
    No the trees are not in bloom!
    I find it a bit curious that you have experienced a significant poisoning event when bees weren't (I assume) actively working the trees. The result may be the same but I am wondering if overspray on standing water may have been the means of transmission. Is it too late to draw water samples from the orchard or perhaps you don't have access?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Indian River, Florida
    Posts
    232

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Good point Jim, certainly there is a link between the Admire and the bee kill, although the grove company and the chemical company are contesting that theory. Samples were taken yesterday by the State Of Florida and hopefully we will find out what the rate or ppm of insecticide was. This is getting old, I am thinking of throwing the towel in.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Well i think, if the trees aren't in bloom the grower will not be liable, as they are following the label law.
    Not trying to be insensitive but remember what happened earlier this year when some bees got sprayed and a big fuss was made? Now probably a third of the groves in FL will not allow bees on for reasons like this. Guess you got to pay to play is how i look at it.
    But after sounding like the enemy and a jerk i really do hope every thing works out for you broodhead and i am sorry that your bees got hit.
    Nick

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    2,058

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    [QUOTE=swarm_trapper;1028324]Well i think, if the trees aren't in bloom the grower will not be liable, as they are following the label law.
    not necessarily true from the label

    This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds.
    Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment <---they are responsible for the weeds also
    area. This product is toxic to wildlife and highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Indian River, Florida
    Posts
    232

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Very good point on the drift and other crops. Well, the grove is surrounded by eucalyptus trees and they are in bloom. Would this be considered out of label application? I inspected hundreds of eucalyptus trees in bloom today, Could be that they never considered those trees as blooming crops. There were thousands of bees working local eucalyptus today. Any ideas on this?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,271

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    [QUOTE=wildbranch2007;1028327]
    Quote Originally Posted by swarm_trapper View Post
    Well i think, if the trees aren't in bloom the grower will not be liable, as they are following the label law.
    not necessarily true from the label

    This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds.
    Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment <---they are responsible for the weeds also
    area. This product is toxic to wildlife and highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates.
    Which are your words and which are someone elses and which ones are from the label? I'm confused.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,647

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    It would help a lot if people would use the quote code when quoting from another post.
    Again, the simple code is: [quote*] blah, blah, blah [/quote*] (remove the *)
    Regards, Barry

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,739

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    >I am quiet disturbed by this incident, I cannot even keep bees on my own property without being subjected to massive kills by harsh chemicals that are being sprayed by citrus growers at an alarming rate.

    Welcome to beekeeping in the 20th and 21st centuries.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,271

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    It would help a lot if people would use the quote code when quoting from another post.
    Again, the simple code is: [quote*] blah, blah, blah [/quote*] (remove the *)
    For example?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    It seems to me that if your bees picked it up from forageing in their groves, then your out of luck. but it also seems to me that if its from direct contact that they sprayed on your hives in YOUR yards it would be a simple case that they owe you. ?? not sure how florida law reads?

    Any idea how it actually got on/in the bees?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    2,058

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by swarm_trapper View Post
    Well i think, if the trees aren't in bloom the grower will not be liable, as they are following the label law.
    not necessarily true from the label

    This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds.
    Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment <---they are responsible for the weeds also my comment at the <---
    area. This product is toxic to wildlife and highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates.


    better?
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  20. #20

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    For example?
    Like this.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

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