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  1. #1
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    Default New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    Has anyone seen a source for this new system?
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    I could not retrieve your message. Will you please send it to: mdenny4396@aol.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    Pins
    pins.jpg

    Back of foundation
    Back.jpg

    Front of foundation
    Front.jpg

    Frame
    Frame.jpg
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    Curious for a source on the above and the price tag... Seems like it could be a worthwhile option compared to the nicot/jenter. It's 512 cells vs the 110. You would need to built a frame with a back cover, but I'd think it would be possible to just drop the frame into a breeder hive with a queen that is limited to lay on 2-3 frames. Just replace the outside 2 frames with two of these.. come back 3 days later for 1024 non-grafted queen cells...

    Much better in my opinion that dealing with nicot/jenter in trying to capture the queen and dealing with that...

    Thoughts??
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    I wonder how the bees are going to draw out this frame. The Jenter has a short simulated drawn comb section that is placed over the grid, so no comb needs to be built prior to the queen's laying. This design is almost exactly like bare plastic foundation, which will require some amount of comb to be built prior to the queen laying. I just wonder what issues will occur initially and in the long term with such a frame. I agree, if its cheap give it a shot.

    I have the Jenter system and pretty much every grafting tool available. I consider myself reasonably proficient at grafting, but when the Jenter system works it works exceptionally well. I wonder if there have been any studies done on the quality of queens from both grafting vs the various on-grafting systems. The thing that comes to mind with the Jenter (and similar) is that there is nearly zero disturbance to the larvae during transfer. The only diisturbance is the required 90 deg rotation, with no disturbance to the RJ pool or placement of the larvae within the RJ. Perhaps master grafters can approach zero disturbance, but I suspect that the bulk of us couldn't make such a claim. The question is does the "zero disturbance" of these systems result in better queens? I realize that the bulk of the success comes from the cell builder colony, mating nucs, and drone saturation, but if small tweaks could provide measurable improvements, why not?
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  6. #6
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    I was looking at it from a pure speed standpoint. With the nicot/jenter you are "suppose" to capture and force the queen into the 110 cell area to lay, then you have to release her later.

    My thoughts on this product is that it's a foundation that is placed into a normal hive to be drawn out in a normal way. It would just only have one side.. Assuming it's cheap enough, you could in theory get a couple to rotate out.

    It's my assumption that I could drop the frame into a queen breeder colony, come back 3 days later and collect the larva.. I know Joseph had some concerns over grafting 512 cells from the same queen. I wonder if this is really an issue, if your trying to put out 100-500+ queens a week. You could just go between your breeder queens on a rotational basis.. I'd also expect that not all of the 512 would be used. i.e. the queen didn't lay the larva on the center/bottom and the larva is disturbed when the plug is removed.

    This would allow 5 times the amount of cell/plugs to select from. Allow the queen to remain free and laying. I "think" that the plugs should be reusable, since the "cell" would remain part of the comb.

    I sent an email to ABJ for more information on the product, but it remains to be seen if I get a response. Worst case, I think this might be something to be tested on the 3d printer.
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    The "Fatbeeman" has a queen youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RDmh...ED6684E5F97742
    I want to try this method in the spring.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post

    Thoughts??
    Graft.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    I agree... I don't know if I could graft 512 grafts in the time that it would take me to snap off the little pin holders... but maybe...

    Always end up rolling one here and there, or smacking them against the wall... *shrugs*

    Just thought it was a neat idea, if the price is right and I can find it.. Might give it a shot...
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
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  10. #10
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    Gainesboro, Tennessee, USA.
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    Interesting. Grafting and making your own wax queen cups is so cheap and easy I just don't see this going much of anywhere.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    It would have to be priced correctly... I'm assuming they sell enough nicots and jenters to offset the injection molding costs.. Those appear to be less ideal than this... IMO....

    If the cups and inserts work out to be the same price or less than the JZBZ cups and the foundation is less than 20 bucks.. I'd send them money to check it out...

    Only real downside that I see, is what to do with the bees larva in the surrounding cells, but I guess you could just them keep growing and insert new inserts every 3 days... *shrugs*
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
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  12. #12
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    Feb 2005
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    Tucson, Arizona, USA
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    I have a bone spur in my neck that affects my hands, causing them to twitch and the feeling in my fingers to fluctuate. Grafting is still, so easy, I don't even consider other ways of doing it.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    I never said I was anti grafting...

    But....

    How long would it take you to graft 512 larvas? At 1 second per that's 8 minutes, I expect that you can't graft them that fast. I know I can't... I don't know if I could locate perfect ones on the comb at one second per... Say it's 5 seconds per, that's 42 minutes to graft the same number.. 85 minutes at 10 seconds per graft...

    Personally, I expect that I'm probably somewhere between 5 and 15 seconds per graft... depending how good of a pattern the queen left me on the frame. The more hunting you have to do, the longer it takes...

    I wonder how fast the people are that graft raise 100-200k cells per year... Would be interesting to compare..

    Again, I'm not anti grafting.. I have 50 Chinese tools laying in a bag beside my keyboard waiting to get started in the spring... I just wonder if this is a "practical" solution.
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: New Queen Rearing System from ABJ Dec2013 p 1279

    Well, you're never going to need to graft 512 larvae, and the device will never, on its best day, have 512 larvae of the proper age. But, if you want to play with it, then do it. My take on these devices is, you do all the setup work for your cell building, and the grafting part is only a tiny part of the whole. If there are no larvae of the correct age in your plastic cell bases, all the setup work is for naught.

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