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10 frame vs 8 frame???

26K views 84 replies 26 participants last post by  RenegadeDrone 
#1 ·
Same old argument??? I am going to get started this spring and I'm looking at which set up to do, all 8 frame MEDs or 10 frame deeps and supers. I think I understand the advantages and disadvantages of each set up. Is there any research showing if there is an advantage or disadvantage to doing 8 frame hives? I like the advantages to me but I would have to weigh my advantages vs the bees advantages. Seems like a lot of peole are going to the 8 frame. Is this just a trend or is there something to it?
 
#2 ·
We run both eight frame mediums and ten frame deeps. Eight frame mediums are a lot more flexible. Easier to work, you don't need a separate nuc box. A new colony may not completey fill two ten frame deeps, but might fill three eight frame mediums. Going foundationless, the medium frames are easier to work.


A ten frame hive will cost a bit less.


Shane
 
#3 ·
I went with all 8-frame mediums for my full sized hives and I have a good bit of 5-frame nuc equipment as well.

It's handy having one frame size (and box size) to manage. I have a friend that wishes he had all 8-frame mediums too.
 
#4 ·
Rob46: It's all about weight! I would encourage you to choose ONE frame/box depth. ALL mediums, ALL deeps, or whatever you choose. Eight vs ten frames is easily adjusted. I can tell you, a medium full of honey is about 40+ pounds, and when it is full of bees, 40+ pounds weighs a LOT!!! I would NOT want to lift a deep!! In fact, I couldn't!

My choice, now (after starting with deeps for brood and medium supers).... I am going to all mediums. Whether 8 frames vs 10, doesn't really matter as much as the consistent choice of depth. I can mix/match/swap/interchange with no problem, as long as all my depths are consistent. I hope this made sense... :scratch:

Bottom line...it's all about how hard you want to work, and how good your back is! My advice, keep them all the same depth. All mediums for me, from now on, though I have mostly deeps still for brood. If I started all over, they would ALL be 10 frame mediums.
 
#85 ·
Rob46: It's all about weight! I would encourage you to choose ONE frame/box depth. ALL mediums, ALL deeps, or whatever you choose. Eight vs ten frames is easily adjusted. I can tell you, a medium full of honey is about 40+ pounds, and when it is full of bees, 40+ pounds weighs a LOT!!! I would NOT want to lift a deep!! In fact, I couldn't!

My choice, now (after starting with deeps for brood and medium supers).... I am going to all mediums. Whether 8 frames vs 10, doesn't really matter as much as the consistent choice of depth. I can mix/match/swap/interchange with no problem, as long as all my depths are consistent. I hope this made sense... :scratch:

Bottom line...it's all about how hard you want to work, and how good your back is! My advice, keep them all the same depth. All mediums for me, from now on, though I have mostly deeps still for brood. If I started all over, they would ALL be 10 frame mediums.
I have 8 frame mediums as recommended by Michael Bush...but would go with 10 frame mediums if I had to do it over again
 
#5 ·
You didn't post your age/physical shape... I'm 35 and in pretty good shape.. I have zero interest in tossing around deep boxes. I still have a few, but they are more or less on their own..

A 10 frame deep, full of honey and bees can way upwards of 100lbs..

Even the 8 frame mediums get heavy when you carry enough of them far enough. As for 8 vs 10.. I have mostly 8 frames, but I think there are more options with standard 10 frame equipment.. Not that you really need most of them. It really doesn't matter... I see most of my 10 frames, the outside frames weren't used for much.. That's what prompted me to go with 8 frames, since they weren't using them. I didn't see a purpose in buying them.

If your looking at becoming a commercial migratory person with forklifts and hired help... Then I'd run all 10 frame deeps... *grins*

I strongly encourage you to run a standard frame, whether it's mediums, deeps, or shallows. It makes manipulating the hive, much easier.
 
#6 ·
I heard in a youtube video where Dr. Larry Connor commented that HE had difficulty getting his bees to draw out the two outermost frames. (And I thought it was just me). So, with a shrug of his shoulders, said "why have them?" May not be an exact quote, but some of the knowledged among us will drop a sweeping thought with just a few words. The bees work up easier than out. Keith. 3 years. Or more like 1 year 3 times. Lol
 
#7 ·
A lot depends on the type flow in your area. Here in the Southeast, there is some reason to use shallows for supers because it allows single floral honeys to be harvested. I would not run deeps for honey, they weigh too much when full. Other than that, I would not run 8 frame equipment for the simple reason that there is no advantage to the average beekeeper. As noted above, the outside frames are tough to get drawn so with 8 frame equipment, you wind up with 6 actual brood frames.

Given a choice, I would use plastic bottoms from Kelley, 10 frame medium boxes with 3 per brood nest, and mediums for honey because it would simplify my operation a bit.
 
#10 ·
I've switched over to all mediums for brood and supers. Makes life so much easier. I think there are many beekeepers who would agree that they notice no disadvantage as far as the bees are concerned in using mediums rather than deeps.

I use all 10 frame equipment. Regarding the bees ignoring the outside frames, that's easy to correct. While inspecting, simply move a capped frame of honey to the outside and move the empty ignored frames in. Particularly in the supers, then they will fill them all.
 
#11 ·
I started with 10 frame mediums for eveything. It simplify's pretty much all aspects of beekeeping maintenance. It is real easy to make two 5 frame nucs as well this way.
Typically the outside frames are difficult to draw (without some manipulation) out whether it be 8 or 10 frame. Question now arises from eight frame hives:
Since there are less frames, does the brood chamber have to be 4 high instead of 3 for ten frame? Based on medium supers.
 
#14 ·
Since there are less frames, does the brood chamber have to be 4 high instead of 3 for ten frame? Based on medium supers.
I think four 8 frame boxes would be a necessity for overwintering in Michigan, if you typically use three 10 frame mediums. With 8 frame equipment you would be 6 frames short if you only used 3 boxes. I'm sure the bees would utilize the stores more efficiently in a narrower set up, but they still might run short in late winter without feeding.
 
#12 ·
Maybe I shouldn't stereotype, but it's faster. I doubt that a young man in the Army is or should be worried about a box of honey weighing too much. I hope I haven't let the cat out of the bag Rob.

Rob is starting out. My gut reaction to his question was concern about the retail value of 8 frame medium supers should he find himself deciding that beekeeping is not for him, after all the investment.

Reading all of the above comments, maybe I am wrong to think that is true.
 
#17 ·
Young man in the Army is or should be worried about a box of honey weighing too much.
I had a 18year old guy that's a mma fighter in very good shape that grunts with a full deep honey super. I'm in good shape and "can" do it... But, given the choice... Why would you do it...

I'd rather lift two 35-50lb boxes than one 70-110lb box... More so if you get into the realm of having lots of hives.. Two hives worked once a month, sure it's not the end of the world. 20-50 hives worked every weekend.. It becomes a bigger deal. More so, when some of your hives are 100+ yards from the truck and you have to carry the equipment across a muddy slope by hand. (grumbles about bad beeyard placement)
 
#13 ·
I ran deeps for brood and shallows for supers for 26 years or so. I moved to all deeps (big mistake on the lifting part) and then all mediums (much better) and then all eight frame boxes. The bees use all the frames much better in the 8 frame boxes, not just filling them out, but consuming them in winter. The cluster typically spans more than one box with mediums so the cluster can contract and expand better with a gap in the middle of the cluster. In my experience they winter better for those two reasons... not so much food left behind and better ability to expand and contract the cluster.
 
#15 ·
Conversions:

2 ten frame deeps are the typical arrangement in the winter in this climate (Nebraska) and most of the North so here is the equivelants in volume:

2-10 frame deeps = 3-10 frame mediums = 4-8 frame mediums

The rule of thumb for that volume for winter is based on Italaian bees in a large cluster. I would adjust when the size of the cluster varies from that.
 
#18 ·
I thought I had read an old viewpoint on this in Dr. C.C. Miller's book 50 Years Among the Bees. I did a quick look and found what he had to say on this matter. Remember this is from a book circa 1915. I find it interesting to see the same discussions repeated over time.

EIGHT VERSUS TEN FRAMES.
I changed from 10-frame to 8-frame hives, I think, more than for any other reason because at that time it was the fashion. I do not know that I got any better crops by changing. When it comes to moving hives about, the advantage is decidedly in favor of the smaller hive. The same may be said of the supers. I am not sure the smaller hives have any other advantage, unless it be that they occupy less space and cost a little less. But the larger hive has the great advantage that it can have a larger supply of stores on hand at all times, making less danger of starvation in winter and spring. That makes less trouble and less anxiety. An 8-frame hive is sometimes too small for a queen without a second story, where a single story with ten frames would answer. So if it were to do over again, very likely I might continue the 10-frame hive.
 
#23 ·
After being down for a month with a strained back starting the end of April (when everything bee related needed to be going full speed), I decided 8-frame is for me. I still have two deeps on the bottom for the hives, but medium supers. I may end up with two (or three) medium boxes on the bottom, and shallow supers. Or I may end up with all shallows before it's over with.

Please watch your back folks, and don't take it for granted. Lift with your legs and take your time. Take care of yourself. The old adage of "prevention is better than cure" is certainly true.
 
#24 ·
Great discussion Folks! Thanks for the info. I'm sure I could lift a deep super full of honey and I am only planning on doing 2 hives (for now), But if I don't have to and the advantage outweighs the cost.... We'll see. I think I like the idea of all 8 frame meds but like sqkcrk said, I don't even know what I don't know at this point.

For you ten framers: Has anyone experimented with the orientation of the frames? Frames paralell to the entrance vs perpindicular, one box going paralell and the next going perpendicular?
 
#29 ·
I'm sure I could lift a deep super full of honey and I am only planning on doing 2 hives (for now)
I thought the same thing until last year when I tried to lift my first full deep super. That was an eye opener. Now I work a physical job and in relative good shape for my age (47), but why hurt my back when there is a better way. Now I started with deeps for brood and now mediums for supers but my question is how do I convert my deeps. I have three active hives at this time and would like to slowly convert to all mediums. Just something that popped into my head while reading this thread and I couldn't think of and answer.
 
#25 ·
Not me. I believe that there has been some beekeepers who have run frames perpendicular to the short end and entrance. Maybe Michael Bush knows something about that.

But since the boxes are rectangular shaped and not square having one box oriented one way and another oriented 90 degrees to the first would be pretty difficult.

It would create different problems too when bridge comb from one box to another occurs.

Thinking about it a while, Michael Palmer's mininucs wintered above full sized hives have frames oriented 90 degrees to the ones below. I believe.
 
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