Page 7 of 24 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 470
  1. #121
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Wow, was not my intent to initiate such a discussion but its been great to read and look at all the input. Sooooooooooo

    It appears that I can sum up the steps I need to take by splitting my hives and requeening with improved genetic stock. This I can do and it makes perfect sense. There were comments about requeening in the fall but I can think of a lot of complications with that. At least short term, I might consider a fall soft treatment of some kind, but this I would need to think about. Someday I will learn to raise my own queens. If I could get my own stock going, raise queens from it and then split and requeen it seems I might have better success than I am right now.

    If someone want to add anything to this please sound off as come spring this is going to be my approach.

    Thank you again for all the feedback.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Read up on how this guy operates. He uses splits for the same results. It's all in the timing for your area. I follow the basic principles of his methods, but modified for my own area. You are basically raising next years bees, during the current season. The production hives are recycled after a couple of seasons.

    http://www.mdasplitter.com/
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    I just printed it off. (The diagram) Definitely going to give it a shot.
    Last edited by whalers; 11-21-2013 at 02:42 PM.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    This is why I take issue with studies that just let bees die. It misses the whole process - but let's not digress.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    I've always wondered how I can winter a nuc. Not sure how they would have enough stores or stay warm.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    I do it here. Not too hard. I have several double nucs (5 deeps stacked) going into this Winter. Sort of like a tall single 10 frame deep. I will be splitting them 2 ways in the Spring hopefully. They are extras, sort of a reserve to help counter winter losses.
    Last edited by Paul McCarty; 11-21-2013 at 04:33 PM.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Posts
    1,166

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Whalers

    We winter two four frame units side by side on top of large fully developed hives. This provides heat for the little units and insulation for the big unit. It is important that all units are lead heavy with stores. I will try and get some pictures soon.

    If you are already sampling for mites in the beginning of August and the numbers are high it is very easy to requeen at this time as long as the hive has not declined too far. I have clients much further north of you and they seem to be having success doing this. Often there is a dearth during this period so the astute beekeeper will provide plenty of nutrition to keep the colonies immune system and vitellogenin levels up. It is all about keeping abundant young bees that produce ample royal jelly. Even soft treatments can provide some stress on queens so a fresh queen post-treatment can really help turn things around. With enough numbers and time one will eventually begin to find colonies that are maintaining acceptable mite loads on their own. These will be the ones to make queens from in the spring. When you get good at making and maintaining nucs you should be able to supply most of your own queens.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul McCarty View Post
    I do it here. Not too hard. I have several double nucs (5 deeps stacked) going into this Winter. Sort of like a tall single 10 frame deep. I will be splitting them 2 ways in the Spring hopefully. They are extras, sort of a reserve to help counter winter losses.
    Two of my nucs are 5 over 5 stacks, and I have to say that they seem to be doing unexpectedly well, with brood in both boxes and plenty of stores. One of them was a hive that I brought down from NY because it was way too light to survive the North Country winter, and it has exploded with bees since I put it into the stacked nucs. It was in a single 8 frame deep with only a little honey in a medium super. They seem much happier in the 5 over 5 setup.

    I checked all 6 of my FL hives today, and they all have at least a couple frames of brood and several frames of honey. Bees are still bringing in pollen, and judging by the wet nectar in some frames, they're finding nectar somewhere. I'm beginning to hope I'll have bees in the spring to split and take north.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    "Two of my nucs are 5 over 5 stacks"

    Sorry for the question but please describe what 5 over 5 is. I can guess at it, but would like you to paint the picture. Thanks
    Last edited by whalers; 11-21-2013 at 05:42 PM.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    whalers:

    I did look over the timing of MDA Splitter. You would have to do the first step, putting on a body with drawn frames, 80 days before your main flow. That's assuming that the powerhouse hive is good for about 30 days. I'd also note that the nucs are really deep bodies because of the number of frames of brood that are being pulled out of them.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,127

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    It's simply a 5 frame box, stacked on another 5 frame box, ie, just the same as a normal 2 box hive but the boxes only have 5 frames.

    I wouldn't mess with this configuration myself, but the theory of it is so the bee cluster can move upwards into honey stores through winter, rather than sideways which they do not prefer to do.

    However an equivalent hive of one 10 frame box, is not going to require extensive sideways movement for the cluster so there is really not much in it, but the idea is there.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    So basically your just over wintering a nuc in a regular ten frame deep box. Correct?

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    whaler, it's unlikely to get 8 frames of brood from 2 stacked five frame nucs.

    Some folks do use deep bodies and call them 'nucs'.

    Hopefully, you have enough drawn deep frames safely stored away to pull it off.

    I'm counting 8 deeps worth of drawn deep frames at the end of 80 days. The process starts with 10!

    PS- By my count, starting with one overwintered nuc, you'll need 5 in-hive feeders, and enough pollen sub, to make it work. It does take some resources to end up with a powerhouse hive and four nucs, starting with only a single nuc.
    Last edited by WLC; 11-21-2013 at 07:18 PM.

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Well, I've lost two hives this fall and it was 6 degrees last night. Any mites in them are certainly dead. The hives are closed up so no mice or anything else can get in, so I will have plenty of drawn comb. I've been reading the material and still trying to get it all straight in my head, but its impressive how so many hives could be created from one.

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    "I've been reading the material and still trying to get it all straight in my head, but its impressive how so many hives could be created from one."

    It's a very useful method to know if you're interested in remaining organic/chemical free.

    However, there's always a catch.

    When you start calculating all of the resources you'll need. along with the timing, you start to see that while you're saving on some items, you're definitely going to require more resources (including feed) to make it work compared to other non-tf methods.

    It may be OK for a small operation. But, those extra resources that are required to make it work wouldn't look too good on a balance sheet.

    It's 80 days of extra resources before you take in a single dollar.

    Let's say that you want to grow your operation and those 4 nucs have overwintered successfully.

    Your powerhouse honey hive would have to have produced enough funds to pay for the new 'nucs', feeders, feed. You'd also have to come up with a whole bunch of drawn deep frames.

    In short, it resembles a pyramid scheme more than a business plan.
    Last edited by WLC; 11-21-2013 at 08:08 PM.

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morro Bay, California, USA
    Posts
    987

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Whalers
    My suggestion is use purchased queens. The MDA splits (which combine bulk queen cell formation, and multiple breakdown splitting, maintenance of queenless hives) are best left to someone with several solid years of experience, and the hive count to support the queens created.

    Queens are an incredible deal. At $20, they cost far less than the gas used to chase an uncertain swarm. They are highly reliable, scheduled, delivered to your doorstep, far better genetics and much easier for an inexperienced keeper to successfully employ.

    An MDA split will have uncertain, irregular, unpredictable genetics -- because they are wild-mated. Any improved genetics will revert to the background "mutt" normative variation. Any one hive will be different than its neighbors, meaning the opportunity to learn from observing hives behaving in consort is lost.

    The supposition that "survivor drones" will have improved genetics is an untested, and fundamentally implausible, hypothesis. The genetics of a wild out-crossing, promiscuous unbounded population with no barriers to gene-flow will be: normative.

    Insects (and plants and animals) speciate (ie fix adaptations) when they become isolated into founder populations. Unbounded populations may drift with glacial speed, to form genetic races requires a founder event and a period of isolation.

    Go with purchased queens (Drive to Old Sol and pick them up, get a quick tutorial). After you have paid your dues, move onto the next step of queen rearing.

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    JWChesnut I appreciate that and tend to agree. The queens make a great first step and are a good starting place. I still want to try the splits MDA splits though at some point. Very interesting.

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,388

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Old Sol is good. I would love to have some of those myself.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul McCarty View Post
    Old Sol is good. I would love to have some of those myself.
    Yes, I'm kicking myself for not doing any splits this year. I bot two nucs from Old Sol last year. Lost one, but the other hive survived and it was an excellent hive. Was good to work with this summer and though slow to take off in the spring (a good thing around here) once they decided to go they really went to town and I got a good amount of honey from them. If I was a little smarter I would have split them. I just pushed my luck to far in assuming that since they tolerated a high mite load last fall, they would do it again this fall. I like the bees and will definitely be getting some queens this next season.

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Something needs to change - looking for suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by whalers View Post
    So basically your just over wintering a nuc in a regular ten frame deep box. Correct?
    No, there are two boxes, each a 5 frame deep nuc, stacked on top of each other.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

Page 7 of 24 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads