Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 80
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,617

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Has anyone tried gang sawing the end bars? Years ago I ganged 4 hollow ground planer blades and it worked well, but sucked HP. I wonder if 5 1/2 in blades could be found with an even narrower kerf than the 7 1/2 in. thin kerf, ussing less HP and wasting less wood?

    Crazy Roland

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dos Palos, Ca. USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Crazy Roland, Yes I think that could work if you had the right HP and kept the RPM's up and maybe used a power feed system. I am fortunate to have a Company close by where they will help design and make whatever one needs. The bottom line is will you be able to regain what you cost are and turn a profit. Tom Peavey

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    What do you mean by "gang" sawing the end bars?

    I'm planning to make some frames by running my piece of stock through a planer to get the 1.25" width. Then I'll run it through a dado to get the top/bottom groove. After that, I was going to run it through the table saw with tenon jig which would cut the long sides of the frame. Then turn them on the side and cut the 45 degree angle of the space bar. I should now have a end bar that looks like a normal but 10+ inches thick. Then, my plan is to slice it into individual pieces with a crosscut sled..

    That's my "rough" plan. I should be able to do everything on the table saw. For each step, I will do a bunch of them. So that I don't have to change between setups.

    The "wife" bought me a new table saw for my christmas present this year.. I'm thinking about setting it up make these types of repeated cuts...

    **Also, I run all mediums... If I was running deeps... You'd probably have to do the sides on a shaper/router.. Since you'd probably be getting close to maxing out your cut depth on the table saw...
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dos Palos, Ca. USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Kevin R If all you have is a table saw that will work are you sure you wasnt to make you end bars 11/4 wide at shoulder most end bars are 1 3/8 wide that is what mine are. Also look around for an used joiner you can find them at Garage sales and some times you can find them on a combo saw/joiner set up if all you are making is medium depth frames that would work fine.The blades are around 4 inches on them. Be careful with them I sliced my finger wide open when wiping down the blades after spraying them with a coating to help keep build up from pitch from the wood. Tom Peavey

  5. #25

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Roland is talking about ripping 5 or 6 end bars at once. Or more depending on how big his set up would be
    David

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    1.25" end bars are to be used with natural/4.9 cell size... Most suppliers don't offer them. Otherwise, I wouldn't take the time to make something that I could buy for 72 cents.

    I thought about using a set of spaced Dado's to cut all the finger joints in a single pass, but I haven't devoted the time to do it.. (Like a haunching machine)

    I'm currently kicking around the idea of setting up a micro controller powered end bar slicing machines. I have CNC equipment, so it shouldn't be too hard to implement something similar... turn on step/dir for motor until it hits limit switch, turn on second motor to run the wood through the saw... reverse and repeat...

    I'm just not sure how many bars I'd have to make to justify it... LOL!

    Similar to the machine at the end of this video, but using a single saw to the the slicing, where he's doing the sides and dados...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7zHbBOiIw0
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,310

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    Then, my plan is to slice it into individual pieces with a crosscut sled.
    This step would best be done on a bandsaw, a lot less wood to remove. But you would first have to have one.
    Regards, Barry

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    I agree... resawing wood is better on a band saw, but I don't have one at my home shop.... Maybe I need a 2nd Christmas present... = ))
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,473

    Default Re: Home made frames

    You can bet that production machinery for making frames starts with a board cut to length that ends up as top bars with little or now hand work -- preset dado cutters, gang saws, the whole shebang. NOT CNC controlled, it's wasteful when you are never going to change the design or the parts run, much cheaper to make dedicated machinery.

    For production it will all have 440V motors, and figure 2 hp per blade or cutter head. Very hard to do in the home shop, and way outa sight costwise for a couple hundred frames. It would be fun to make it all though....

    Peter

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    True, I plan to make multiple sleds to offset the cost of all those 440 motors.... = )

    Same thing with the fixtures on my cnc mill. If I was going to make the same parts all the time, I'd get stock precut/extruded to the proper sizes.. But I don't make that much, so my 200 dollar metal cutting bandsaw and a fly cutter does that work for me.

    I make a bunch of glitter on the mil... I'll make a bunch of sawdust on that table saw. If I get serious enough, it would be time to invest in a pellet mill. So that I can save up to play with the big boys...

    But at the moment... A 30 dollar micro controller, 100 dollar stepper driver, and some time seems like a realistic option.

    *grins*
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Trinity, NC, USA
    Posts
    142

    Default Re: Home made frames

    I fabricate Jumbo frames that are 1.125 wide (top bar, end bars & bottom bar). I space them using track spikes, similar to hob nails.




  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    That's an interesting idea.. I've seen similar with staples/thumb tacks. This appears to be a little more controlled.

    How much do the spikes cost? I'm assuming these are the spikes that screw into the bottom of a track shoe?

    What do you do on the end bars?
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    545

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Track spikes, LOL, awesome idea.

    Just curious, what size are the jumbo frames.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Trinity, NC, USA
    Posts
    142

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    That's an interesting idea.. I've seen similar with staples/thumb tacks. This appears to be a little more controlled.

    How much do the spikes cost? I'm assuming these are the spikes that screw into the bottom of a track shoe?

    What do you do on the end bars?
    Yes, these are track shoe spikes. Cost = 7 dollars for 14 pieces.

    Each end bar gets a spike near the bottom of the frame.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Trinity, NC, USA
    Posts
    142

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by marshmasterpat View Post
    Track spikes, LOL, awesome idea.

    Just curious, what size are the jumbo frames.
    The frames are Langstroth width 17.750" and Dadant depth 11.250".

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dos Palos, Ca. USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: Home made frames

    psfred, You are right having 3 phase power is good but buying the machines to use it will cost. When I bought this place my warehouse had the 3 phase power here already. This place was built by a Beekeeper and then sold to someone else who rented it out to a cabinet maker and he needed to 3 phase and when the economy took a dump the bank got the property back and I was able to get the property to run my bees from the bank. I don't have any equipment that uses that type of power but it is here if I want it sometime. most of my equipment is 110 or 220 volts and that work for what I do. Tom Peavey

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,828

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by rail View Post
    Yes, these are track shoe spikes. Cost = 7 dollars for 14 pieces.

    Each end bar gets a spike near the bottom of the frame.
    You could use nails with a spacer to set them to the correct depth. This by the way was described by Doolittle I think it was in one of his books.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,828

    Default Re: Home made frames

    methods to maximize the production with each and every cut is the best way I know to reduce the time and cost of making fraems. end bars and top bars begin the two to target. This is because even though there are fewer cuts to make and end bar. you have to make two f them for every frame. I try to improve my methods every time I make frames.

    Cutting dados in the ends of a block of 2X4 allows me to cut the notches in 7 end bars with each cut. Cutting that block to it's final dimensions as a block is the ultimate way to maximize production per cut. I am not there yet.

    At minimum a single end bar requires 7 cuts and 5 adjustments to equipment. those are. Length, notches at each end of the bar, width which requires a cut on each side and the bee spaces that require a cut on each side. This amount to 14 total cuts to make a complete frame.

    Top bars are next they require 15 cuts 16 if you make a groove With either 7 or 8 adjustments. These are. Length, width. thickness, 6 cuts to make the notches for the end bar. two cuts to taper the frame rests. and 4 cuts to make the dog ears if you do that.

    If I where to make 700 end bars. it is much faster for me to make the 7 cuts in 100 blocks than to make them in 700 individual bar pieces.

    For this reason think of methods to shape an entire block of 2X material to the shape of an end bar and then slice those apart for the final thickness. A gang saw that cuts all 7 bars to thickness from a single block would be the fastest way to do that.

    The only other improvement you could make would be high speed cutting and automated feeding.

    I am looking at a Delta table saw with a jointer mounted to it's side that will make it possible to shape an entire block to an end bar with a single piece of equipment. Only thing I have left is the slicing. I would love to have a jointer that will take a 2X12.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Whitla Ab. Canada
    Posts
    334

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Has anyone tried this method for making frames? I made a 100 in a couple hours. There are a lot fewer cuts and once you are set up it goes fast. The only things I did different was make a 1 inch rabbet on my table saw in the 1x4 for all 3 top bars before ripping to save cuts and cut them 19 inches instead of 18-7/8. Also after cutting the 1-3/8 strips for end bars I clamped 6, 6ft strips together and cut them to length in a bundle. Although not as pretty as some others they are strong and functional.
    Part 1
    http://youtu.be/FrK2mG44wpQ
    Part 2
    http://youtu.be/Avww6M2zlRw
    A Bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it rains.- Robert Frost

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Looks like it works, but not a very strong designed frame... Overall the techniques appear to be close to what you'd do, but I don't think I would "eyeball" the center lines. It appears that he's 1/8" or more off center. If you have 2 frames that are like that, turned so that both short sides are together.. The bees will draw one out and not the other... At least I'd assume that be the case. That's what they do when you place an over draw frame against a not drawn foundation.
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads