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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,652

    Default Re: Home made frames

    barry - I would say it was about a cubit from the blade to frame.

    Crazy Roland

  2. #62

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Mr. Clemons - I have no doubt you have good luck with your carbide blades, but have you ever tried a blade from Starrett? We used a 9' , 3/4 wide, .032" think, 3 teeth to the inch blade in a 1930's Wallace band saw, and where quite pleased. We where ripping 2*6 the tall way to make 3-3/8" pieces, and where impressed with how straight it cut.

    Crazy Roland
    Crazy Roland,
    Do you guys make all your own frames then? That is alot of work. Maybe you can give us some more clues?
    Mike
    Bee a blessing to God and others.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by rail View Post
    The frames are Langstroth width 17.750" and Dadant depth 11.250".
    Rail,
    Are you getting your foundation for those frames from Dadant then? It sounds like a the old Modified Dadant brood chamber frame?
    Mike
    Bee a blessing to God and others.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,652

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Bentonbee - we do not make our own frames at this time, but plan to in the future, due to displeasure with the current 1/2" bottom bar. In the 70's, I was awing parts for wooden gift boxes, for Muth jars.

    We currently make our own bottoms, innercovers and roofs.

    Crazy Roland

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,318

    Default Re: Home made frames

    In making Top Bar blanks, I cut pieces of 2x lumber to frame length (19 inches), then run them through the band saw, trimming them to 7/8" thickness. Later I run each face, through the router table, cutting the comb guide profile on opposite sides of these blanks, and next cut the notches on all four corners of each blank, creating the surfaces that will receive the End Bars, and will become the End Lugs to support the frames on the frame rests. Once the Top Bar blanks are nearly finished, the final cut is back on the band saw, where each blank is cut in half, lengthwise, separating the blanks into two Top Bars, each.


    It's easier to determine how many frames you need, then set up the band saw to make the first cut on the component you plan to create on day one. Then the second and subsequent cuts (if required), creating Top Bars / End Bars / Bottom Bars, in the quantity needed to produce the desired number of frames. Or, if there is enough time, in one day, set out the materials and decide which order to make the cuts and create each group of components, in your desired order. And, after the components are made, you can then begin assembling the components into frames.

    Just like queen rearing; I always assumed frame producing was too complicated, and not worth my trouble to attempt, until I designed my own plans, then began figuring out ways to cut out the frame parts. Now that I've been doing it, it turned out to be much easier than I believed possible.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 12-20-2013 at 10:23 PM.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,487

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Making frames doesn't make sense for a dozen, but if you need hundreds it's not rocket science. Work out a design that suits you, then spend a bit of time getting a process set up, then decided how many you want to make.

    From there, acquire the necessary supplies (I like to use yellow pine 2x10 or 2x12, whichever is nicer, for top bars and soft white wood 2x6s for end bars) and do them all at once. By that I mean cut all the "blanks" for the entire set at once so you don't have to change setups. I like to cut all my top bar blanks to length, cut the tapered ends, then cut them apart into pairs on the table saw. I split them into separate top bars last year then cut the dados for the end bars, but this year I'm going to try milling a 1/2" dado down the end of the block to cut the "notch" for the end bar -- two cuts instead of 32 or 36 if I cut each top bar separately. I'm also going to cut the side dado before I split the pairs too, same reason -- four operations instead of 8.

    I think doing things this way cuts way down on the time, should produce more uniform parts, and is more fun. However, if you do want to make frames, I'd not wait much longer! If you use rainy days or odd weeknight, you can get a pile of them done over the fall and winter, but if you wait until you need frames, it's gonna be a real chore, and boring to boot as you do the same operation over and over and over!

    I think making frames is worth the effort -- I use 3/8" end bars, and I see Joe is using 7/16" ones. This is MUCH stronger than the normal 5/16" one gets from suppliers. If I'm going to put all that effort into making frames, I want them to last forever.

    Only one other note -- you must get a good square and make sure your saw blade is EXACTLY square to the table and the slots and angle guide are EXACTLY square to the blade. Same thing for the fence, verify every time before you cut. This will often require adjusting the saw (loosening the table and moving it to get it square, for instance) and you must NEVER depend on the scale for 0 degrees, check your saw every time with a good square before cutting. Even a few minutes of arc off square will result in frames that are not square or not flat, and a drifting slide will cause you to cut tapered parts. Small differences in thickness of parts is much less of a problem so long as you don't violate bee space badly.

    Peter

  7. #67
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Richland Iowa USA
    Posts
    153

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Well said psfred.
    It DOES take time and a bit of thinking. It isn't for everyone.. however, if you need a lot of frames, AND you have time, theres really no excuse not to figure out how YOU can do it... .20 cents each compared to a buck each makes a difference when you need a thousand frames. That price can even be dropped to almost nothing if you can scrounge 2X material from old buildings.. Over the course of the summer I usually end up with a pretty decent pile of scrounged wood. I see a lot of frames in that pile others consider scrap.
    www.outyard.weebly.com 8 yrs aiding 40+ hives 3 yrs personal. 40+ of my own now (T, TF Goal) Zone 5a

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,916

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Fred, You are right in that making a lot of them cuts way down on time. If the saw only has to be set up one time for each cut.

    We are in the process of making 800 frames. to buy them would cost over $600. to make them just over $300.

    Keep some very big boxes around. that is a lot of pieces.

    I also made our first assembly jig a couple of days ago as well.

    I am not sure just how long we can hold out making our own. I am going to buy the boxes and the deep 5 frame nucs. we will still make the medium 5 frame nuc boxes. $171 to buy the nucs $181 to make them. I may give up the idea of having medium nuc boxes unless I can start getting them from suppliers. my boxes are coming from Mann Lake. I like to start my bees in a deep and a med 5 over 5 so that I can then expand them to my standard deep and med hive configuration. Plus I will build up so that I have three medium honey supers for every hive in my yard. that will be 63 medium supers. I did this last year when I only had 4 hives and ended up filling every additional extra medium with swarms.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Mann Lake will cut down their deep nucs to mediums, but you only save effort not money...

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dos Palos, Ca. USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Daniel Y Would you explain further why it will cost $171. to make five medium nuc boxes and $181. to buy them. I would think it should cost less, the materials can not cost that much? I make my own Nuc boxes all the time and if I need to make one to use as a medium it is very simple, I just use the California style plans and they last if done correctly.

    I also make most all my frame parts myself. This way I get a good strong frame made to work for me. Thomas Peavey

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Home made frames

    You should be able to make a 5 farme nuc from a 1"x8"x 12' board... which is about 4 bucks for me... You might need a little extra scrap to finish it... But it shouldn't be anywhere close to the 171/181 dollars..
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  12. #72
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Whitla Ab. Canada
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Beesrme View Post
    I just use the California style plans and they last if done correctly.
    I've done a Google and site search and can't find the definition for California style plans. Could I bother you for one?
    Thanks
    Colino(pronounced Ko leen oh)
    A Bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it rains.- Robert Frost

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dos Palos, Ca. USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Colino, The California Hive Plans were what was put out by UC Davis Division of Agricultural Sciences. Basically a person makes there hives using Rabbit jionts that is all there is to it. Thomas Peavey.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Whitla Ab. Canada
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Beesrme View Post
    Colino, The California Hive Plans were what was put out by UC Davis Division of Agricultural Sciences. Basically a person makes there hives using Rabbit jionts that is all there is to it. Thomas Peavey.
    Thanks Thomas now I know mine are California Hives.
    A Bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it rains.- Robert Frost

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,487

    Default Re: Home made frames

    I'm not sure I would make nucs to sell out of 1x stock, I'd use plywood or better the plastic cardboard. Otherwise, you should be charging for the box along with the bees, a good 5 frame box, glued nailed, and painted, is worth way too much to give away!

    For my own use I want them quite solid as I don't want to be re-making any, but for sale I'd use something much lighter unless the buyer wanted to pay for the box on top of what I sold the bees for.

    Peter

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,916

    Default Re: Home made frames

    I make some very cheap and quick nucs to sell bees in. not the sort that are half size Langstroth hives. my permanent nucs are complete with a bottom board inner cover outer cover and built to the same standard as my full size hives. Those do not get sold. I am also looking at just getting the cardboard boxes. the cost is pretty much the same as a cheap wood one but the time in making them is less.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,787

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Over the years I have found that lots of my customers wanted a quality built nuc.

    My nucs are built the same as regular Langs, except the top is a feeder top.

    5 Frame Nucs.jpg

    cchoganjr

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,916

    Default Re: Home made frames

    I have to actually go price the lumber for todays prices but here are my estimates.

    I am only talking about deep 5 frame nuc bodies so they require a 1X12. The medium depth bodies I can make cheaper than buying them. I also am not able to find 12 foot boards locaaly so only have a price on 10 foot baords.

    To make 18 deep 5 frame nucs I show I need 9 10 foot 1X12's at $20.15 each for a total of $194.68 with taxes. This makes each box cost $10.81

    I can buy them from Mann Lake for $9.50 each no taxes. Since my order is over $100 there is no shipping.

    It requires 58 inches of board to make a 5 frame nuc box. a 10' board is 120 inches. two nucs from a 10 foot board will use 116 of those inches not including cut off.

    A 12 foot board leaves approximately a 28 inch scrap. this will make an additional pair of ends or one additional side. Using ten foot boards only leaves 4 inches or less of wasted board.

    My price on the 1X12 is based upon an actual price from a receipt for a 10' 1X8 at $13.15 each. I simply multiplied that price by 1.5 since prices here remain linear. I must have added it in my head to get the $20.15 price per board because it is actually $19.72. It does not matter the price once taxes are added will be more than the mann lake price.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,787

    Default Re: Home made frames

    Daniel Y.. Your estimates are very close for current prices in my area also.

    The way I am able to make nuc boxes, bottom boards, and tops, is, I have nothing in the lumber. I am in with some building contractors and I get 1 X 12, 1 X 8, and 1 X 4 , cutoffs when they build houses and commercial buildings. The scrap, short pieces of Advantec from one house will make a lot of bottom boards and the feeder tops. I have even made a few nucs completely from Advantec, but, I normally save it for tops and bottoms.

    The only cost I have in the nucs is glue, nails, electricity, and labor. I mark the nucs up, if the customer wants to keep the nuc so that I also make money on the nuc. If the customer returns the nuc, I will refund the cost of the nuc. Very few return them, they want to keep the nuc for their own use later on.

    I can't stress enough how important it is to get as much of your lumber as you can for free. My favorite price.

    Here is a photo of a nuc made from Advantec. I like Advantec much better than plywood for nucs, but, I like 1 X 12 better. In this area, Advantec is used for subflooring in virtually all houses and commercial buildings. One building will have a lot of short pieces of Advantec. 1 X 12 is used for roofing sheeting.

    Advantec 5 Frame Nuc.jpg

    cchoganjr

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    642

    Default Re: Home made frames

    I've found a jointer to be the fastest at trimming the end pieces



    Tip:
    The material cost of the top bar is 50% of the frame cost when you make them yourself, but you can salvage 2" x wood easily for free from new constructon home site scrap piles. (1000 salvaged top bars will buy you a nice used band saw)


    Don

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