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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Khorasan, Iran
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    17

    Default what nutrient for winter?

    in iran we put mixture of sugar powder and soya powder and honey in hive for winter. is it enough or i need some other nutrients

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    How cold and long are your winters? Beekeeping information is very local, your local beekeepers may have better information on this subject than we have in the US.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hiltons,Virginia
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Bees need carbs and protein and essential oils to be as healthly as possible any where they are located.Make sure they have enough winter stores and at least three frames of pollen.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,678

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhoto View Post
    Bees need carbs and protein and essential oils to be as healthly as possible any where they are located.Make sure they have enough winter stores and at least three frames of pollen.
    I disagree with this somewhat blanket statement. It may be true in your area but not in mine.

    Honey is carbs is feed for adult bees. Pollen/bee bread is protein and is food for young bees, not too many of which are born during the winter. Timing of a spring pollen "flow" will dictate how much pollen needs to be stored.

    Essential oils? I'm not sure where this comes from. Trace elements and minerals in honey yes but Essential Oils? There is research showing that some EOs have negative implications for the honey bee gut.

    EOs have their uses (thinking thymol as mite treatment) but to my mind are mostly snake oil for bees.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN USA
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    The soya powder is the main ingredient in pollen substitute. If you're going to use that, finish the recipe out by adding brewer's yeast and powdered milk if you can. Mix it as 3 parts soya, 1 part yeast, 1 part powdered milk.

    I give my bees a candy board with mostly crystalized sugar and a pollen patty that is basically this mixed with sugar syrup.
    Beekeeper since 2013. Read my bee blog at:
    http://harrisonbayhoney.blogspot.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Garfield, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    87

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsenfathi2005 View Post
    in iran we put mixture of sugar powder and soya powder and honey in hive for winter. is it enough or i need some other nutrients
    I would like to try the sugar-water mix in a Zip-Lock bag. How is it applied?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Khorasan, Iran
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    its from now for 3 months

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Khorasan, Iran
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Edymnion
    you tell that i use your recipe plus mine or just your recipe?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    I don't know how hard or how long your winters are. But if they are anything like mine, powdered sugar is a bad idea because of the starch (assuming you mean the stuff the sell here as powdered sugar). Soya is a bad idea because of the solids. The bees do not need starch or protien or pollen to get through the winter. They need honey or sugar.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Bees bring everything they need to the hive to support themselves during winter, if the fall flow is abysmal (like ours was) by all means feed some sugar syrup. They don't need pollen patties or sugar cakes unless you've robbed them of everything.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlmka View Post
    bees bring everything they need to the hive to support themselves they don't need pollen patties or sugar cakes unless you've robbed them of everything.
    wow.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,323

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Take it easy Keith 'pollen patty' Jarrett! I can feel the pressure all the way here!
    Regards, Barry

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    wow.
    Utterly amazing that honeybees have survived the millennia without us eh?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLMKA View Post
    honeybees have survived the millennia ?
    They aren't surviving too well latley.

    If one rolls the clock back a couple hunderd years, most of us on this form have already out lived our ancestors, an there's a reason why.
    Last edited by Keith Jarrett; 11-06-2013 at 03:56 PM. Reason: spelling
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Khorasan, Iran
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLMKA View Post
    Bees bring everything they need to the hive to support themselves during winter, if the fall flow is abysmal (like ours was) by all means feed some sugar syrup. They don't need pollen patties or sugar cakes unless you've robbed them of everything.
    i know we are robbing their foods but i took thier honey and i thought i can feed on them again.but the weather came cold and as in game of thrones TV series "winter is coming"

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,699

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    This link from the University of Georgia offers a useful summary of bee's nutritional needs.
    http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documen...Article10.html

    Pollen is mixed with glandular secretions to produce “bee bread,” which is consumed by young bees, considered the “social stomach” for protein digestion (because foragers cannot digest pollen directly, but still need protein (Moritz and Creilsheim, 1987). Rearing one larva requires 25-37.5 mg protein, equivalent to 125-187.5 mg pollen (Hrassnigg and Crailsheim, 2005). Newly emerged bees have undeveloped hypopharyngeal and mandibular glands. Hypopharyngeal glands are paired glands inside worker’s head, consisting of a long central duct with many “grapes” (acini) attached. The glands will only develop after consuming a lot of pollen for the first 7-10 days. The glands first secrete the protein-rich component of royal jelly in young bees, but then secrete invertase, which is used to convert sucrose to simple sugars (fructose and glucose), in foragers. Mandibular glands are simple, sac-like structures attached to the base of each mandible. The glands secrete lipid-rich components of the royal jelly in young bees, but produce an alarm pheromone (2-heptanone) in foragers.

    The entire document is available at this link:
    http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documen...Article10.html
    The section quoted above discusses pollen consumption by "young bees", otherwise known as "nurse bees". Since in most locales fewer bees are raised in winter, pollen consumption of a colony is lower in winter. Also note that the solids in pollen require that bees defecate [outside the hive], and if bees are not flying during the winter that can be a problem. Bees primarily live on carbohydrates (honey/sugar) over the winter, not pollen or substitutes.

    The document is from 2010, and discussion of pollen substitutes does not include ALL brands currently available. I'm pretty sure that not all pollen substitutes available in the US are available in Iran anyway.

    Also, Beesource discussions of bee nutrition and raising winter brood are often colored by the fact that there is a huge demand for "early" bees in California to pollinate the almond tree crop. That demand is satisfied by moving bees from up to several thousands of miles to California. If you are not moving bees, you bees' pollen consumption will likely be closely tied to weather and plant blooming cycles in your area.
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Also note that the solids in pollen require that bees defecate [outside the hive], and if bees are not flying during the winter that can be a problem. Bees primarily live on carbohydrates (honey/sugar) over the winter, not pollen or substitutes.
    TIMING. Timing is everything in beekeeping weather it's mite treatments or sub. I have many costomers that use the good sub on there bees in the fall ( sept-oct) then they put them in potato cellars building for the winter (Nov-Jan) with GREAT success. Most have a cull out rate between 3-5% and thats on 5-15 thousand hives. So, as we know all beekeeping is local, look at your own area and make your moves accordingly.
    Best of luck to all.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,573

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    "Also note that the solids in pollen require that bees defecate [outside the hive], and if bees are not flying during the winter that can be a problem."

    No problem for me. Fed them giant gobs of protein patties in August and Sept when they needed it for rearing that all importaint last few batches of future winter bees..they are done taking it up, fat and happy and settled in contently for a long winter. Maybe my husband will quit grumbling about all the bee poop on the vehicles the next few months.



    There are many threads here discussing bee nutrition. Here is a recent one:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...Lake-Ultra-bee

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,699

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Note that Lauri is in Roy, Washington, and the winter climate/temperature there is moderated by the influence of nearby Puget Sound and the Pacific Ocean. In some other areas of the US, bees have less opportunities for winter cleansing flights. (I'm a former resident of West Seattle.)

    An interesting thread that Lauri linked!
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,573

    Default Re: what nutrient for winter?

    Yup, that is true Graham, my climate is great. Wet with 40-50 degree wintertime average temps. Occasional lows in the teens.

    My husband is great too, except when he is washing the new truck and giving me the evil eye.

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