Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Canada Border To Remain Closed…Probably.

45K views 221 replies 26 participants last post by  Lauri 
#1 ·
CATCH THE BUZZ

Alan Harman
The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is refusing to release its risk assessment on bees from the United States, but media reports say the agency has concluded the border should remain closed because of four serious risks from the U.S., including Africanized honeybees and medication-resistant pests.
I am surprised they are concerned about Africanized honeybees and am not surprised they are worried about medication-resistant pests. I was under the impression that varroa did exist in Canada though. How do they keep the bees from crossing over the boarder naturally?

http://home.ezezine.com/1636/1636-2013.11.04.11.22.archive.html
 
#3 ·
Seems like Canadians would welcome AFB resistant bees more than they would fear antibiotic resistant AFB. Resistance or susceptibility to AFB varies in samples across NY, why would one expect the same thing to not occur in Canada too?

Do the different Provinces test their AFB samples for susceptibility or resistance as is done by the Beltville Bee Lab?
 
#5 ·
Seems like Canadians would welcome AFB resistant bees more than they would fear antibiotic resistant AFB.
The organisms that have built up a resistance to man made antibiotics also have built up resistance to the bee's immune system so it is almost guaranteed to get other bees sick. Mrsa is a huge problem in our hospitals today. People who have no infection at all going into the hospital for something non life threatening get it and die. The logic of trying to sterilize our environment is biting us in the butt.
 
#19 ·
Some people do, so it's a concern for those. I can't really tell you what the recommended practices are, for I don't use it myself, but seems to me that it's still best to strive to have the weakest possible strains as possible, so that, should action be required, multiple options present themselves. I think a prescription from the vet is required for the use of such antibotics, though.
 
#21 ·
I know Apivar is Amitraz, and it's the only chemical treatment we have that works. And I know by using it every year the chances of resistance increases, but by rotating it with chemical treatments that don't work is not going to help the situation at all.

The limited avdlibility of mite control products is one of our industries largest concerns. Because we only have one treatment. And by trying to keep pests that are resistant to our effective treatments out is probably in our best interests for the short term anyway. This is one of the main points for keeping US bees out
 
#23 · (Edited)
The limited avdlibility of mite control products is one of our industries largest concerns. Because we only have one treatment. And by trying to keep pests that are resistant to our effective treatments out is probably in our best interests for the short term anyway. This is one of the main points for keeping US bees out
If you are going to treat wouldn't you be better off letting the cheap bees from the US in? If you are not going to treat I can see keeping the US bees out but if you are already treating you might as well flood the market.
 
#26 ·
20 years? If that's the case we have nothing to worry about. We have found that silver bullet
Acids are like putting out a fire with a garden hose. It works and works very well at certain times but if the fire gets too big and out of hand thanks to the wind, the whole yard will burn
 
#33 ·
Ok, we need to rotate, got it. We also need more options. And for the short term it is best if we restrict pest movement within our continent.

Now an opinion from the other side of the story, what about the availability of bees? Speaking only on package bee across the boarder, no comb.
If we could get a solid supply of package bees to supply our yearly production needs, practicing more of a buy in spring and shake out in fall, treatments could just about be eliminated
 
#35 ·
The solution is not importation of cheap packages full of super bugs, but domestic breeding.

Of course, from what I gather in the report, the situation is quite different in Manitoba than in Québec and Ontario, where we are much more self-sufficient.

Are you talking about the old practice of killing off all of your bees when winter comes? Aside from the big ethical issue I have with that, such practices do not promote self-sustainability, do not favor the emergence of bees truly adapted to local climate (optimal genetics) and, as stated in the report, presents a significant risk for the introduction and spreading of treatment-resistant pests and disease, some of them escaping and surviving in the environment with or without feral swarms.

It's my opinion that if Manitoban beekeepers want more bees in the spring, they should simply make sure to overwinter more bees in the fall. The shortage of bees in the spring is really not a fatality, but the result of the industry's unwillingness to properly prepare and organize itself.
 
#34 ·
I have read the report and I for one, think that the decision to keep the border closed was the right one. The availability of packages from the US would be a short term gain for the potential of long term pain if the diseases and pests prevalent in the US become established here. We do not have a wide array of treatment options available to us here, which has already been established by other posters. There have been isolated reports of SHB, resistant varroa, AFB etc but since they are isolated they can be dealt with effectively to keep it from becoming a widespread problem. This collection of pests can greatly outpace our ability to contain it since we do not have the treatments available to us, by the time regulations caught up it would be too late.
CFIA's role is to do its best to protect industry - as a whole. The opinion of the report is one that the Canadian beekeeping industry is better served by keeping things out of the country as long as possible. It is a double edge sword - producers complain that the Govt is regulating our operations and hindering our ability to do what is necessary to maintain our operations. However the same beekeepers that are wanting this get some bad packages that severely hurt their operation which they could spend years recovering from, not to mention spreading it to other operations as well, they will be the first to complain that the Govt should have done more and been more vigilant to the industry and require compensation for their losses. To the industry as a whole it is more important to maintain Canada's status as being 'free' of these pests than to have the cheap supply of packages brought in and jeopardizing this.
I have the 'luxury' of sitting on both sides of the fence but until we develop our own self sustaining system of bee supply, this will be an ongoing issue.
 
#36 ·
Sounds like Manitoba would be a very good place for a Shake-collect honey- Shake out kind of operation.... if the price of packages were not so high. The price of a Canadian package is pretty spectacular... or so I've hear..... no idea how accurate the info is.

If package bees could be moved into Canada I suppose one would drive a flatbed down to GA in March (when they are readily available) and load up for about $65/package (assuming a large order.... 500 or so). Given the type of honey yields I have heard of in Manitoba, there would seem to be a good chance for profitability + a long winter vacation.
 
#37 ·
The price of a Canadian package is pretty spectacular... or so I've hear..... no idea how accurate the info is.
When we started out in 2011, we bought 4lb new zealand packages. Small lot retail, they ran around $250 if memory serves correctly. We didn't realize it at the time, but they are intended to start two hives from, and typically come with 2 queens. We got 3 queens with a pair of packages, and shook them evenly across 3 boxes to start 3 hives.

If the border was opened up, I think the southern package producers would be rejoicing, and, american package purchasers would be horrified at what happens to pricing. I suspect a lot of the producers have been holding off on giving prices for 2014 spring packages, waiting on this decision. If the decision had allowed for northbound bees in package form, prices would have immediately jumped substantially. I also suspect it would have been devastating for australian package producers.

Me thinks there was plenty of politics behind the scenes, that us mere beekeepers were never aware of. I'd actually be quite surprised if there was not some lobby efforts originating with the southern hemisphere producers.
 
#39 ·
I'm all for tough restrictions on bee imports, but I wouldn't want queens to be totally banned as they temporarily were. Greater control, perhaps, with possibly a special tax, but queen imports should remain allowed. Or at the very least, germplasm.

The only valid reason in my eyes for importing bees is for their genetics, in order to be able to enrich our diversity and add particular traits developed by American researchers, ex: Primorsky bees, Minnesota hygienic bees, VSH bees, old world bees, etc. I suspect most queen imports are just done because American queens are cheaper and/or available sooner, which results in sub-par bees that don't do all that well in our climate. Genetic pollution more than anything else, really.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Resistance genetics.

Aussie bees have never seen a Varroa.

As for genetic pollution, if you mean AHB in southern US bees, it isn't the case according to a recent study.

I think that calling US stock 'pollution' is a bit over the top.

They're uniquely US Honeybees according to what I'm reading in Honeybee genetics research.
 
#55 ·
I call unadapted genetics pollution, regardless of how well it performs in the area where it is adapted. This is not to say that american bees are poor, I just find it ridiculous to use bees adapted to Californian weather to build up a stock that will live in Canadian climate, unless it's to incorporate specific traits into local stocks. Every locale should breed bees adapted to its own area, and imports should only serve as short-term boosts in colony/apiary strength, their queens not used for breeding and, ideally, replaced with local queens at the first opportunity.
 
#41 · (Edited)
> Resistance genetics.

It is currently legal to import US queens into Canada. Why would you need to import packages simply to get US "resistance genetics" when importing queens is already legal?

The push to import US packages to Canada is from an economic impetus, not a genetic diversity issue.

.
 
#43 · (Edited)
I'm planning to send some of my Northern VSH queens to Elmendorf AFB in Alaska next spring for testing . I'd be interested in sending some to Canada to overwinter and get some reports on their performance. PM me if you are interested. I am located in Western Washington State.

Not trying to drum up business here. I'm too small to ship for sales. Still a local producer. I'm more interested in research and development at this point and would like to perhaps do some trading with someone else doing research. The colder and harsher your climate the better

I have mainly survivor high performing ferrell stock collect from a wilderness area and Carniolan VSH hybrids from the Glenn II line.

This is the Mt. Rainier ferrell strain. Black or black striped daughters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-VW_PMRHCs

Glenn Hybrids are Chocolate striped. All my bees are dark.
 
#44 ·
The best reason for opening the U.S. Canadian border both ways isn't just for trading bees.
It would be beneficial to migratory U.S. beekeepers who could take advantage of the very long summer days in the northern part of the provinces, and Canadian beekeepers would benefit by overwintering their bees in the south.

Unfortunately, it's a closed shop as it seems.
 
#56 ·
This is the last thing I would want to see happen. Migratory beekeeping is a horrible practice, bee health-wise. It accelerates the spread of (resistant or new) pests, greatly stresses the bees, and pressures for the concentration of the industry into the hands of a few. The less the bees move, the healthier they are. The less borders they cross, the happier I am.

This practice is perfectly suited for the Prairies. It is why it was so widely practiced beforehand.
Bring the bees up, Oxalic acid treatment before hiving. Feed them a squirt of Fumagillin and that is it for hive treatments, period. Feed them a couple gallons of syrup in the spring, and thats all the feed you have to provide for them. Kill them off in the fall, spend the winter scraping and preparing the boxes for next year. Store them in cold storage to help kill off pest presence and virus.
Fresh queens every year which would build a fantastic summer time population. An exact measured amount of bees poured into each hive which eliminates all the spring time swarm control work.

So many advantages in running a package bee operation. It truely was developed for the Northern States and the Canadian Prairies.

So the question is asked, Should the rest of Canada hold the Prairie beekeepers hostage because it a package operation doesn't suit their operation and practice?
That practice was common here too, before, and thank god those days are over. Can you imagine the bad publicity it would generate? I can already imagine PETA going all "BOYCOTT CANADIAN BEE SLAUGHTER", and American companies being all too happy to comply. I have serious issues with that practice. We put our bees through a lot, and they work really hard to earn us a living. We owe them a minimum of respect. And while yes, they are farm animals and don't get the same treatment as pets, mass annual extermination just crosses the line. Manitobans should just overwinter their bees. Otherwise, they should just give up beekeeping altogether, and let neighboring provinces fill in their pollination needs, or rely on bumblebees instead. Such practices are not only morally wrong, but would tarnish the reputation of the rest of Canadian beekeepers. It should outright be illegal. The few should never be allowed to compromise the many.
 
#47 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm a little surprised at how clueless some people seem. Closing the borders is a quite logical thing to do if you want to limit the spread of pests, heck we even have zones here that nobody imports from as they have had varroa, because it's a good practice. Throwing loads of varroa packages all over the country won't exactly help stopping those little mites...
 
#51 ·
of course I have thought this out. This is the discussion up here.

I ask you hpm08161947, when change barrels down on you regardless if the change was welcomed, and everything you know changes, what do you do? Sit there and complain about the way it was, or do you start making changes to embrace the opportunity?

Its the second possibility I mentioned that keeps migratory beekeepers from lobbing heavily to open the boarder. Do you think the Almond growers would welcome another half million Canadian hives?
 
#52 ·
Its the second possibility I mentioned that keeps migratory beekeepers from lobbing heavily to open the boarder. Do you think the Almond growers would welcome another half million Canadian hives?
I am sure the Almond growers would welcome the Canadian bees. Just as I am sure the Almond pollinators would not.

All in all.... blocking borders does not fit my model of free enterprise, particularly when there appears to be no significant reason to do so.
 
#60 ·
Dominic: You will probably be happy to know that most of these operations now simply sell fall shake out bees to southern operations. I am surprised at the amount of bee anthropomorphication expressed here. Are you involved in agriculture?
 
#65 ·
Yes, I am involved in agriculture, and fail to see any comparable situations. Livestock sent to the slaughterhouse at least have the dignity of having a meaning to their death: feeding people.

And whether one cares for it or not, one has to account for anthropomorphism. A bunch of these lobbies are currently our allies, fighting against the people responsible for bee declines. Beekeeping benefits from significant public support, because of the general public's vision of how we operate in harmony with nature and sell "100% natural honey". Unethical beekeeping, the likes of an annual mass extermination, is the kind of thing that will not only get all of these environemental groups to stop working with us, but will get them to work against us.

But only after they were brought across the Atlantic hundreds of years ago, right?

So many of these critisisms of those who kill their bees, or would do so, at the end of the beekeeping season are so selfcentered. How many colonies survive Manitoba Winters? I don't think y'all know the whole story. I know I don't. But I am not going to condemn someone for doing what is economically best for them.

I don't care for the idea of killing bees. But I can afford to have that mindset, because most of my bees survive where they Winter. Others may not.
I don't live in California or Hawaii or some other sunny beach State. We have harsh winters in Québec too, and we overwinter our hives. And not just on our southern border, either. If it can be done here, it can certainly be done over there too. The whole of Canadian beekeeping should not be jeopardized just so one province's can be lazy and kill their bees off every year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top