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  1. #41
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    A "wax tube fastener" ....

    Image linked from this Kelley page: http://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/43/Hi...-Tube-Fastener

    It doesn't go into the frame/foundation. It is a tool used to add wax when securing foundation to the frame.

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Thanks Rader I just watched a video.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Page 70 "... plastic or wax tube fasteners"
    He also mentions a split top bar that is usually used for comb honey. The foundation is dropped down onto a solid bottom bar with no fasteners. You would not cross wire a frame for comb honey



    You can straighten it pretty easily even after it is in the frame.
    It was the bees I was referring to that had not the technology to straighten curved foundation...

    You cannot straighten it quite easily even if you see it(at least vertical embedded wire) without over bending in opposite direction and that process will knock much of the wires loose. It may well not occur till after you have placed it in the hive and warms up. The bees will chew around loose or poorly embedded wire.

    If the cross wires are tight AND on the outside of the incipient curve they will hold it close enough to lined up. If it is a bad batch with much inherent curve and you embed crosswires on the inside of the curve the foundation will pull out of the cross wires. That is why some folks place the foundation and the wires so they alternate sides.

    You seem to be arguing about something you have never done properly yourself, but maybe that is just my misbegotten impression.

    Embedder below. notice 9 pressure fingers plus electrical contacts either end to evenly melt cross wires into wax.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    You cannot straighten it quite easily even if you see it(at least vertical embedded wire) without over bending in opposite direction and that process will knock much of the wires loose.
    I have done it to many frames with great success.

    What are you showing in the photo? Are you passing current through the wire to inbed them? This will elongate the wire which will shrink when the wire hits the wax. Doing this from one side I would expect the foundation to curl immediately if we are talking about the vertical wires.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Laurel Hill, Fl
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    471

    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    Enthusiasm is a priceless motivator.

    Ask me how hard it is to climb a cliff, and how hard it is to climb that same cliff when an elk is bulging on top during archery season.
    Now that is a quote to remember!
    Last edited by Robbin; 11-04-2013 at 01:13 PM.

  6. #46
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    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Maybe do a search on embedding wire in wax foundation. Actually you have dismissed or misinterpreted most of what has passed here so as far as I am concerned you are on your own.

    Unless someone has been badly injured I have not spoon fed any beyond about a year old.

    Lauri, do as you see fit with this post!

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    I have done a search but it is difficult to find procedures for industrial equipment There is a lot of primitive foundation making equipment because it is used by hobbyist that post to You tube. Not a lot of video for industrial equipment though.

    Judging from what I see in the foundation that I have the wire is put in after the wax is milled yet the wax manages to get on top of the wire. Oh and BTW it is three months old and flat as a pancake. It has already gone through a lot of temperature changes in my office.

    In my search I came across a site that said both vertical wire and horizontal wire on the same frame is a bad idea. Do one or the other. Bees don't like the second wire and try to remove it leaving holes in the foundation. Just because I enjoy machinery if anyone has any video of how the hooked wires are inserted into foundation I would like to see it.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #48
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    Sep 2011
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    Do your own search..... Good grief!
    So you don't know either.

    It is a tool for pouring wax into the groove after the wax foundation is placed in it.
    15840.jpg
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Daniel Y, if your interpretation of the BeeCurious comment you quoted in your post above was that he didn't know what the function of a "wax tube fastener" was, how do you explain this post he made way back in April 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    The advantage of using the PF frames is that poorly drawn comb can be scraped off and the frame returned directly to the hive.

    Otherwise, grooved top and bottom bars are what I use. A wax tube fastener is handy for attaching starter strips if you go that route.



    (click the blue arrow in the quote box to see the original post/thread, with timestamps!)
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #50
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    Dec 2011
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    I usually use PVA to glue three ice cream sticks in the groove of the top bar. Also works with strips of foundation. I also use two vertical bamboo skewers instead of wiring. Works great!

    See here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...-frames-for-me

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Never saw a post in April So why would I explain it. I was referring to the post he made here. Obviously intended to be sarcastic with no interest in being informative or contributing to the purpose of this conversation.

    His audience is not limited to only Ace.

    If he has such a negative opinion of sharing information why is he here? To get spoon fed?
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    His audience is not limited to only Ace.
    People forget that.

    Anyway the confusion I had when reading MB book is all cleared up and that only happens because of a forum not reading a book. You just have to be able to handle embarrassment and ridicule from time to time.

    Daniel, never worry about one individual calming up on a forum the answer will come if you are persistent.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Obviously intended to be sarcastic with no interest in being informative or contributing to the purpose of this conversation.
    Oh boy .... is this going to be one of THOSE threads?

    Hard to say whether this earlier DY comment was intended to be sarcastic or not, but if it is not sarcasm, it is rather alarming:

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Like those here that think if they can insult you you it makes them right. People do some strange things. and many follow right along. It's how we end up with politicians being chosen. Very few people are genuinely intelligent. It takes to much effort.



    (click the blue arrow in the quote box to see the original post/thread)



    Anyone remember the Frankenstorm thread?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Rader, he said it in another thread. Which has nothing to do with this one.
    You have some useful skills but you are not using them in a productive manner. Try to support a thread more instead of tearing people up.
    Last edited by Lauri; 11-05-2013 at 08:01 AM.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    MattDavey,
    I do the same..corn dog sticks, just shoved into the grove. No glue necessary. You don't even have to trim them.I get them at my local Cash and Carry wholesale food supply.
    Cut out your honeycomb in nice even squares:

    Last edited by Lauri; 11-05-2013 at 07:46 AM.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    DY

    Handing a top contributer a photo would have been more akin to "spoon feeding".

    Yes, the storm thread.... Some astronomy was spoon fed to someone if I remember correctly.
    BeeCurious
    5 hives and 8 nucs................... Trying to think inside the box...

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    > he said it in another thread. Which has nothing to do with this one.
    > Try to support a thread more

    I believe there is significant value in learning from older threads. Sometimes that learning may be from a thread that starts out on a different subject. There is a lot to be learned from those with actual experience!

    More from an older related thread on frame components:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?265086-
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Rader, he said it in another thread. Which has nothing to do with this one.
    You have some useful skills but you are not using them in a productive manner. Try to support a thread more instead of tearing people up.
    Sheesh, and I though I was the moderator.

    Let's keep the thread on topic here folks. Keep scolding and negative opinions at least somewhat suppressed please.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Spring Tx
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    131

    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Grow up people, your beginning to act like children again. I like many others read Bee Source several times a day, every day for informative information, we know everyone can't be right. Some people know, some people don't, but one way or the other we learn, and hopefully we learn who to take at face value. I being a new, and have every thing to learn, get a little tired of the rock throwing, if I don't know, I don't post, and I don't belittle anyone for not knowing. Besides, it appears the bee's know way more than us. My .02

  20. #60
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    Dec 2011
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    Victoria, Australia
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    Default Re: Grooved vs Wedge

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    MattDavey,
    I do the same..corn dog sticks, just shoved into the grove. No glue necessary.
    I've found thicker sticks cause the bees to create three sections of comb. Often each section has different size cells, especially if you use ice cream sticks for comb guides. The thin skewers allow a consistent cell size across the frame.

    I'll have to try jamming the skewers beside the foundation. It definitely would be tight enough to hold. I just need to get the frames with the bottom groove next time!

    Here's an example with the skewers:


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