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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,274

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshW View Post
    That is more what I am looking for ryan. Thanks for the post.

    unfortunately eventually the local market cannot/ will not purchase all my honey. There are many keepers in the area to buy from, some that offer prices $1 per pound lower than myself to the public.

    Say I can sell 2,000lbs by word of mouth locally that is 10-15 full hives worth. I then need to sell the remainder of my honey through the coop at say $1.75 per pound on a conservative estimate.

    optimum honey production would be to split each of my hives in half in spring.

    With 10 hives that would leave me with 20 hives.

    20 hives x 200lbs = 4,000lbs.

    2,000lbs x $4= 8,000
    2,000lbs x $1.75 = 3,500
    total $11,500

    value of hives $200x20 = $4,000

    total value of honey and hives = $15,500

    now my strategy:

    10 hives x 200lbs x $4 = 8,000

    Value of hives
    10 hives x $200 = $2,000
    60 nucs x $130 = $7,800 assuming 25% do not mature
    total $9,800

    total value of honey and hives = 17,800

    Each of the strategies will require aprox. the same amount of equipment. either for honey boxes or brood boxes.

    The second one leave me with higher net value. plus the bees are insurable for the winter. honey crop is not insurable.
    Not to throw a big bucket of cold water on your dream, but all of these figures are fantasy until you actually do the work and make the sale. It's good to plan and to project what you expect, but it often doesn't turn out like you wish, no matter how hard you work.

    For instance, here in NY we didn't have such a bad Summer, but the honey crop was dismall. We should have had 20 to 40 lbs more honey per hive then we did. The second year in a row.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk, NY, USA
    Posts
    688

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    edit

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    127

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Thanks sqkcrk, This is information I can use. I am not meaning to insult anyone just trying to keep this thread informational and on track. I notice many threads that have so much potential to provide information, go way off track and provide nothing. It is frustrating at times for me as someone who wishes for valuable experienced information. I am straight forward and too the point, at times people take offence to that.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,274

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Me too.

    Don't be too disappointed. You may not get from this Thread what you want.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    127

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Not to throw a big bucket of cold water on your dream, but all of these figures are fantasy until you actually do the work and make the sale. It's good to plan and to project what you expect, but it often doesn't turn out like you wish, no matter how hard you work.
    Completely understood. In any business there is risk of unforeseen events. I have used conservative numbers in my estemates and do not have to market my wholesale honey myself, the co-op does that for me.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Fresno Ca USA
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Hello Everyone, In post #2 I offered Josh an Excel Spreadsheet for cash flow management and budgeting.
    I am happy to share it with anyone, however I have been getting dozens of request though my PM I can't respond with Excel via the PM.

    Please send your e mail to me at my email shousebee@gmail.com or go to our web site www.almondbeepollination.com go to the contact area type the word "Excel" and it will be automatically sent to your email.

    The spreadsheet can be modified to your specific needs but it is currently sent up with pollination services, honey sales, package sales, and queen sales.
    California Almond Pollination Services, Inc.
    http://www.almondbeepollination.com

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,812

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    I wish to be honest and say I do not believe you have the right attitude or eduacation. A business mind is not what you need first to be a beekeeper. You must first be a Scientist. Understand Ecology(the interactions of different population groups), Epidemiology(spread of disease), Botany(your bees depend on plants), Meteorology(the plants depend on the weather), and last, Entomology. Most of those posting will have learned these at the School of Hard Knocks , but it sure helps to have the information handed down for generations.

    Your business background has probably been discussing rather shallow subjects, with little interconnected cause an effect. Be care full, beekeeping has many more factors that interreact at different levels. Last years weather may effect next years plants, which may effect mite levels due to different plants blooming(like Basswood) and therefore effect virus levels which effect overwintering which effects your nuc survival. And then there is CCD. How does your plan factor that in?

    At least you have a goal and apparent drive. Good luck, you will need it.

    Crazy Roland

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,586

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Plan looks great!

    My advice, be prepared to have your plans completely fall off track. Every winter I "figure it out" , and every spring I fly by the seat of my pants !

    Second piece of advice, make sure the revenue keeps coming in, no matter what

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Jasper, Texas, USA
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    I see the math. I'd place my $2 bet on splitting 10 hives into 20 and getting a big crop is a lot more likely than turning 1/2 the brood from 10 hives into 60 nucs.

    That's equal to having 5 hives in the spring and expecting 60 nucs by fall. That's a 12 to 1 increase. Wow.

    My first and main point is, if you're going to be a honey producer in the future then be a honey producer from the start. The money is almost even and the odds won't be stacked against you.

    I like cash better than equity and insurance. :-)

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    chilliwack, bc
    Posts
    658

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    I think I would just explode those ten hives 4 ways and give them all a new young queen and then build them up to a double to go 4 ways later in the summer. It just doesn't seem that the old queens kept back are going to do you justice with honey production after taking half the bees and brood away and you'd probably fair better to market 25% of the last nucs you made. In the perfect world your ten hives could go to 40 on the first splitting and then to 160 on the second splitting. this is assuming you have the equipment to do that. the nucs could make to a single box for winter too. I did something similar to that about 12 years ago.
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,620

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Here is something I learned the hard way in my early years of commercial honey production (raising bees for almond pollination the following year is a different scenario). Make spring splits based on the income you can derive from them THIS year not a year and a half down the road. If you see a yard where most of your honey is being produced by a small percentage of your hives then you are doing something wrong. All this multiplication looks really good on paper but lots of bad stuff can happen along the way when following a long term plan. I never start a year saying I plan on running x number of hives, instead I let the quality of my bees determine my final number. In short, in the beeyard you must think like a beekeeper first and foremost and not an accountant making projections. Also, categorize your expenses between "needs" and "wants" and dont ever let your bees get shorted on their needs. Needs? Health, young queens, feed, forage and lots of room to grow. Wants? The shiny stuff.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,281

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshW View Post
    My end game is to have at least 500 hives, enough for me to work at it full time.
    Maybe this has already been mentioned but is it possible to work for a commercial guy in your area and trade bees for labor? You would also gain knowledge in your area and shorten up the learning curve. Good luck
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,281

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshW View Post
    I am straight forward and too the point, at times people take offence to that.
    That's O.K., there's nothing wrong with telling it like it is, sometimes the truth hurts.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,586

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Josh, building all these bees, what about your equipment? Is your plan to buy in some comb?
    If so, that is exactly how you do it. Build your bees, buy your equipment
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    265

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Plan looks great!

    My advice, be prepared to have your plans completely fall off track. Every winter I "figure it out" , and every spring I fly by the seat of my pants !

    Second piece of advice, make sure the revenue keeps coming in, no matter what
    Pay close attention to this post. It is a lot closer to "real" beekeeping.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,927

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    My thought is to find a niche that needs filling. Here in my area it's not a great honey area. But it is a great area to sell nucs. I now specialize in selling nucs and have developed a pretty good reputation. Until I can supply all the nucs I can sell, I've developed a good supplier of quality nucs and I bring them up from FL each spring. It's turned into a good business.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Nashville,"Golden Valley" TN
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    all the best, these bees become a mighty strong addiction
    that gets all encompassing,
    Last edited by reidflys; 10-26-2013 at 10:42 AM.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Lee County, Illinois
    Posts
    120

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshW View Post
    Thanks sqkcrk, This is information I can use. I am not meaning to insult anyone just trying to keep this thread informational and on track. I notice many threads that have so much potential to provide information, go way off track and provide nothing. It is frustrating at times for me as someone who wishes for valuable experienced information. I am straight forward and too the point, at times people take offence to that.
    I love this comment!!!

  19. #39
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    I have been reading these startup spreadsheets for decades. These boxes are for free here in California and there are probably 500 other of these piles up and down the state. I bet this guy had a similar spreadsheet.


  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Fresno Ca USA
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Growth on limited budget/ waiting on financing

    Most likely he didn't know how to use one.
    California Almond Pollination Services, Inc.
    http://www.almondbeepollination.com

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