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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    4,975

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    If you consider that at in the era under discussion, it is likely that hive equipment was often manufactured locally, and done so with hand tools in many cases.

    Drilling any hole involved a brace and bit,

    and smaller bits are much easier to use, and likely more readily available.

    Drill two small holes space a few inches apart, insert a saw similar to a coping saw, and cut out the wood between the holes.

    That may have been simpler than trying to drill a single large hole.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    24,494

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Actually w/ wood as thin as wood used in inner cover construction I would imagine a bit and brace and a sharp knife would have been used, not a saw. That's how I woulda done it. Proper grain orientation would have been crucial.

    In the mid19th Century sets of bits were quite common, coming in a variety of sizes. What you illustrate is very 1940s up to today, I believe.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    2,611

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    It is unlikely the inner cover was as thin as it is today. it certainly was not made of plywood. it didn't exist yet. It is more likely the inner cover was made of wood an inch thick or more. My home was built in the late 1940's. the entire ceiling is made of 2 inch thick tongue and groove lumber. today the same woudl be about a half inch thick and still not used as a ceiling.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    24,494

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    You may be right, but it isn't like the ability to make wooden boards as thin as 1/4 inch was not possible then. I have don't w/ a pit saw. A much older technology. Many of, if not most of, the inner covers I have had experience w/ are/were not plywood at all, but three thin boards inside a frame and ship lapped.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    2,611

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Boards only 1/4 inch thick woudl very easily break. they may have been used in some items but not many. Shadow boxes for hanging on the wall but not being handled regularly comes to mind. cigar boxes which had an intended use like we use cardboard today and other uses. I don't see it being done for something that would see as much use as a beehive or even an inner cover. Not a thin as 1/4 inch anyway. maybe half inch. Btu since the Lang hive was first built from cast off apple crates. OR at least that is what I have heard. I suspect most of the wood including the inner cover was made of closer to 1 inch thick wood. Keep in mind the thickness of the inner cover is not the issue. the cost of material since then has influenced that materials get thinner and thinner. The development of plywood at all that then made strong enough 1/4 inch material possible was a result of this need to reduce the cost of materials. I really do not see anyone goign to all the effort to resaw a board to 1/4 inch thickness only to loose nearly all its' strength. I know the first inner cover I was given was made out of 3/4 inch thick boards. That was a around 35 years ago and it came from my great grandfather who at the time was nearly 100 years old. If I had to assume I would say that hive would at this time be 75 to 100 years old minimum. And sorry no I did not save it. wish I had. Still we are talking only as old as 1913 at most. Things where already becoming far more modernized at that time than it had been even 20 years previously. I did have the ability into my teen years to see first hand how things where done without the use of electricity or other power sources. And it was done much different. Methods where common then that have pretty much been forgotten today.
    I will say the hole in that inner cover was the same shape as they are today.

    I will also add that the selection of wood that a hive was made out of was done far more carefully also. those hives did not rot easily. They where heavy dense wood and weather resistant. Almost a completely different item than I see today.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,196

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    My home was built in the late 1940's. the entire ceiling is made of 2 inch thick tongue and groove lumber. today the same woudl be about a half inch thick and still not used as a ceiling.
    Today, the same (tongue and groove roof decking) is still 2 inch nominal lumber.
    Like comparing an inner/outer cover setup verses a migratory cover. Two very different designs, yet both are covers.
    Last edited by Barry; 11-11-2013 at 07:03 AM.
    Regards, Barry

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    The mention of constructing hives from "apple crates" prompted a my recall of the one-time widespread practice of manufacturing "box shook" from wood. This was at a time before corrugated shipping boxes existed.

    Entire lumber mills sometimes were constructed to do little more than turn out material for fruit boxes, that product being "box shook". One such company was California's Fruit Growers Supply Co., which made fruit shipping boxes for its co-op member fruit farmers.

    http://www.foresthistory.org/publica...006_Citrus.pdf
    As you can see from some of the vintage photos, box shook came in a variety of thicknesses, depending on where it was used in the box. You can see that some of the crate tops were quite thin.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    24,494

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I will also add that the selection of wood that a hive was made out of was done far more carefully also. those hives did not rot easily. They where heavy dense wood and weather resistant. Almost a completely different item than I see today.
    Maybe all of your experience is from living in NV? Almost all of the bee boxes and wooden equipment I have handled has been pine or tulip poplar. A 1/4 or 3/8 in board set in a frame is plenty strong for an inner cover. It isn't like you or I have to stand on it.

    Have you ever seen drawers from the 18th century? Loblolly pine board was quite commonly used for drawer bottoms in dovetail constructed drawers. Pertty darn thin too.

    And like mentioned, apple crates are made from pretty thin wooden slats. I don't see why it's so hard to imagine and accept. I don't have to imagine it either, it's common.

    Michael Palmer? What are your old inner covers like? I bet you have some that are 100 years old.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
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    2,539

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    I was called this year to remove bees which had moved into old equipment stored in a barn. The inner covers were indeed 1/4" boards set in a frame. They had that same hole. My guess is that the equipment had been in the barn for decades, maybe since WWII.
    Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jefferson Co, TX
    Posts
    440

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    That 19th century loblolly and especially the long leaf pine (or old east coast white pine) and such was air dried (makes a huge difference in the strength of the wood) and was slower growing old growth wood. Much of the plantation pine cut these days (or at least in the southeastern US) is faster growing, less rings, and does not structural as strong. And yes those old saw mills could cut 1/2 and as thin as 3/8 thick.

    And I have help tear down buildings that were built prior to 1960 (prior to hurricane Audrey and Carla) and some of them had 1.5 inch tongue and groove.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Lutsk, Ukraine
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    I don't use inner covers as a result I haven`t "B holes"

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    2,467

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    SQKCRK - we make our innercovers out of 3/8th pine tongue and groove(of our own production), that looks like all of our OLD innercovers, possibly from the 40's and 50's?.

    Crazy Roland

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    2,611

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    SQKCRK - we make our innercovers out of 3/8th pine tongue and groove(of our own production), that looks like all of our OLD innercovers, possibly from the 40's and 50's?.

    Crazy Roland


    The inner cover I was given could date back as far as 1875. I don't think the maker would have considered pine for firewood much less a material to make a hive from. It was most likely Oak or Black Walnut. I know it was hard like stone.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, OH, USA
    Posts
    415

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Hole (Oblong), Hive Inner Cover
    Beeless since 2012; coming back in 2014. Suffering from apicultural withdrawal!

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