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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    586

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    It is a hand hole, you flip the hive over on its side and use the hand hole for a grip when you move the hive from place to place. If you assembled the hive correctly, there is another hand hole on the bottom for the other hand. Lay the hive on the side and see if it is there.

    The cutouts on the sides of the boxes are only for when you are moving individual boxes.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,594

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    were there? were there inner covers before 1891?
    Are you suggesting the Porters were the first to use an inner cover?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,200

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Some times a question is just a question. Stop reading into my question things that aren't there.

    I'm saying I don't know when inner covers came into being and asking for information. Where would I look that sort of thing up?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,898

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    There are many kinds of holes I don't put my hand into and a 'bee escape hole' is one of them. I don't wear gloves.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by berkshire bee View Post
    well, if you just quickly stick your fingers in there and squeeze tight to pull the cover off, you'll probably call it a sting hole.
    I did that way back in the 1970's and it cured me first time I tried it. I refer t it as the 'hole in the inner cover' and have some rusty bee escapes laying around some where.
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Littlerock, California, USA
    Posts
    940

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Some times a question is just a question. Stop reading into my question things that aren't there.

    I'm saying I don't know when inner covers came into being and asking for information. Where would I look that sort of thing up?
    Well sqcrk, I guess allan must be laughing at the responses you are getting here!
    We may never know the true answer to your inquiry.

    Quote Originally Posted by allan View Post
    I have 1 acre I can make in to a bee yard I was just wondering how many hives could fit



    thanks allan
    “Everything will be all right in the end... if it's not all right then it's not yet the end”

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,200

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Could be. But if u would go back and look, you will notice my first response to his question was a search for more info from him. Though I participated, I was not the one to start it down the Off Topic path.

    So, no one knows when inner covers came into fashion and whether they had holes in them from the beginning?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Walker, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    That oblong hole found in the middle of inner covers, it's called a hand hole, isn't it? That's what I was instructed to call it.

    What do you call it? If anything. What do you use it for? I think that it is a pretty standard size so a bee escape will fit into it. Three or four fingers will fit into it too.

    Thanks,
    MarkB

    Sorry but it's the escape hole.

    JMO

    Rusty
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper & Rusty's Bees ( LC and T)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,012

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mathesonequip View Post
    by some odd coincidence the oblong hole is exactly correct for a porter style bee escape.
    But was the escape made to fit the hole or was the hole made to fit the escape? The shape would be a simple one to make with common tools. drill two holes of proper diameter and then cut a straight line from one hole to the next. It does not make nearly as much since to design an escape to such a shape. For this reason I suspect the hole was already present and the escape was designed to fit it.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,594

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post

    So, no one knows when inner covers came into fashion and whether they had holes in them from the beginning?
    In "A Practical Treatise on the Hive and Honey-bee" (1857) Langstroth describes feeding through holes of a "honey-board" which is above the bees/frames and under the surrounding box:

    "If the weather is cool when bees are fed, it will generally be necessary to resort to top feeding. For this, my hive is admirably adapted: a feeder may be put over one of the holes in the honey-board directly over the mass of the bees, into which the heat of the hive naturally arises, and where the bees can get at their food without any risk of being chilled."

    Langstroth also mentioned setting up spare honey-boards with straw and reversing them for winter:

    "The upper * surface of the spare honeyboard, may be fixed in the same way, and reversed in Winter, so as to present the straw side to the bees. When the bees are put into Winter quarters, most of the holes in this board, may, in hives thus thoroughly protected, be left open, and when it is covered loosely,with straw, all excess of dampness in the main hive, will pass off into the top cover, from which it cannot possibly return, to annoy the bees. As soon as the bees begin to fly out, in the Spring, these holes should be carefully closed. If the spare honey-board is not covered with matting, it may have, for Winter use, the space between the clamps filled with straw, battened down, and may then be reversed and set on the hive."


    Here is a link to images:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=hLB...ed_pages&cad=4


    So here's an early example of someone, Langstroth no less, feeding through holes of a board that is inside the hive...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,709

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    SQKCRK - my father had numerous beekeeping books from the late 1800's. Next time I am at his house, I will look and see what they say.

    Crazy Roland

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    . Our inner covers don't It must be for feedinghave holes and we don't feed. Feeding holes?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,594

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Has anyone else found a reference to "inner covers" and the possible functions/uses of any "holes" prior to
    the use of Porter Bee Escapes?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    In "A Practical Treatise on the Hive and Honey-bee" (1857) Langstroth describes feeding through holes of a "honey-board" which is above the bees/frames and under the surrounding box:

    "If the weather is cool when bees are fed, it will generally be necessary to resort to top feeding. For this, my hive is admirably adapted: a feeder may be put over one of the holes in the honey-board directly over the mass of the bees, into which the heat of the hive naturally arises, and where the bees can get at their food without any risk of being chilled."

    Langstroth also mentioned setting up spare honey-boards with straw and reversing them for winter:

    "The upper * surface of the spare honeyboard, may be fixed in the same way, and reversed in Winter, so as to present the straw side to the bees. When the bees are put into Winter quarters, most of the holes in this board, may, in hives thus thoroughly protected, be left open, and when it is covered loosely,with straw, all excess of dampness in the main hive, will pass off into the top cover, from which it cannot possibly return, to annoy the bees. As soon as the bees begin to fly out, in the Spring, these holes should be carefully closed. If the spare honey-board is not covered with matting, it may have, for Winter use, the space between the clamps filled with straw, battened down, and may then be reversed and set on the hive."


    Here is a link to images:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=hLB...ed_pages&cad=4


    So here's an early example of someone, Langstroth no less, feeding through holes of a board that is inside the hive...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,191

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    Has anyone else found a reference to "inner covers" and the possible functions/uses of any "holes" prior to
    the use of Porter Bee Escapes?
    Your question is puzzling, at least to me. The hole in the inner cover existed by 1857 by your quote. Your quote did not reference anything to do with Porter escapes. But Porter seems to have developed his bee escapes decades later.

    One Rufus Porter received a patent for a bee escape in 1893. The link is not to Porter's patent, but it does reference Porter's 1893 patent.
    http://www.google.com/patents/US1089157

    E.C. Porter (son of Rufus) is credited with actually manufacturing and marketing Porter bee escapes. E.C Porter was born in 1857, so it seems the hole in the inner cover existed before the bee escape was developed.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=J6A...0rufus&f=false
    The link above does mention Rufus Porter in developing the bee escape, but if it was left to the son to market them to others, surely it had to be somewhat later than 1857.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    423

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    It would seem odd, to me, that the hole size and shape be standardized unless it was meant to be adapted to a very specific tool, such as the porter bee escape. If there wasn't anything of any specific size to insert in that hole, then there would not be much reason to standardize the size, and every supplier would drill whatever hole is easiest or most convenient for them to drill. There might have been a hole in the inner cover before this bee escape, this would not surprise me, but I'd be surprised if the size was already standardized and that the porter bee escape was made to accommodate it.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,390

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
    It would seem odd, to me, that the hole size and shape be standardized unless it was meant to be adapted to a very specific tool, such as the porter bee escape.
    I agree. Call it what you want, but the oval hole in an inner cover was designed to accept the Porter bee escape.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    1,278

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    The honey-board was an early name for an early form of queen excluder. They were not speaking of the inner cover.

    The ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture, in the section describing hives, states the standard inner cover usually comes with a center hole in which to fit a bee escape.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,012

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I agree. Call it what you want, but the oval hole in an inner cover was designed to accept the Porter bee escape.
    Which came first the hole or the trap. I say the method of making a hole in the center of a board came long before any beehive. And when it came to making one in a beehive part. they simply did it the way everyone else did it.

    Here is a description on how to cut a through hole in an arcade game cabinet in order to install a card reader.

    You need:

    1 drill
    1 jigsaw
    1 wood rasp (file)
    1 roll of masking tape (optional)
    1 pen

    If you are cutting on finished wood - say a painted or laminated cabinet, lay down the masking tape and draw the cutting line on it. The masking tape will help protect the edge of the cut AND keep the jigsaw feet from scratching up the surface of the wood.

    Use the drill to put a pilot hole on the inside of the line you wish to cut. Give yourself about 1/2" of room between it and the line.

    Insert the jigsaw into the hole, cut down to the line and then along the line. The jigsaw takes about a 1/2" to turn a corner so cut up to the corner, back the blade up about an inch or so then slowly cut while turning to cut along the next line.

    Don't turn too fast or your'll break the blade.

    When done with one direction you can flip the jigsaw around and cut back along the line the other way to cut the other side of the corner cut.

    Use the file to smooth the edges.

    Now a rounded end hole would become popular if you have to make a lot of them. it eliminates the need for all that extra corner making. Which is a standard and common way to leave them if they do not require a square object be fit into them. Leaving the ends of a through hole round is a labor saving method. A pop bottle or milk bottle crate would have been an example of how to make a hole during that same time.
    $(KGrHqZ,!pIFHHFRnkl8BR4NNu7MUw~~60_57.jpg

    So seeing a rounded end hole woudl have been fairly common.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,200

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Chicken or egg argument? Oh boy. I sure can open a can of worms, can't I?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    423

    Default Re: It's a hand hole, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Which came first the hole or the trap. I say the method of making a hole in the center of a board came long before any beehive. And when it came to making one in a beehive part. they simply did it the way everyone else did it.

    Here is a description on how to cut a through hole in an arcade game cabinet in order to install a card reader.

    You need:

    1 drill
    1 jigsaw
    1 wood rasp (file)
    1 roll of masking tape (optional)
    1 pen

    If you are cutting on finished wood - say a painted or laminated cabinet, lay down the masking tape and draw the cutting line on it. The masking tape will help protect the edge of the cut AND keep the jigsaw feet from scratching up the surface of the wood.

    Use the drill to put a pilot hole on the inside of the line you wish to cut. Give yourself about 1/2" of room between it and the line.

    Insert the jigsaw into the hole, cut down to the line and then along the line. The jigsaw takes about a 1/2" to turn a corner so cut up to the corner, back the blade up about an inch or so then slowly cut while turning to cut along the next line.

    Don't turn too fast or your'll break the blade.

    When done with one direction you can flip the jigsaw around and cut back along the line the other way to cut the other side of the corner cut.

    Use the file to smooth the edges.

    Now a rounded end hole would become popular if you have to make a lot of them. it eliminates the need for all that extra corner making. Which is a standard and common way to leave them if they do not require a square object be fit into them. Leaving the ends of a through hole round is a labor saving method. A pop bottle or milk bottle crate would have been an example of how to make a hole during that same time.
    $(KGrHqZ,!pIFHHFRnkl8BR4NNu7MUw~~60_57.jpg

    So seeing a rounded end hole woudl have been fairly common.
    Sure, but having every supplier drill the exact same size and shape, internationally? And wouldn't it be easier to just drill a round hole? If it's an escape, a peeping hole, or a feeder hole, circular would be just fine for all of these uses, and you could still stick a few fingers in there if you wanted (though I don't see why you would).

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