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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,980

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Charlie, SO far we have been putting them in a JZ-BZ cage with a candy plug. We make sure they are not released for at least 24 hours. I never did get around to using the Laidlow cage mainly because the introductions came to an end just about that same time. I have materials here to make one next spring. I am not that fond of the small cage given I also understand the queen can suffer if she does not have enough room to move around.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    McClure, OH
    Posts
    1,017

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I am not that fond of the small cage given I also understand the queen can suffer if she does not have enough room to move around.
    I saw that first hand - one of the replacement queens this spring obviously had been in the cage too long. Her body retained the curve of the cage for as long as she lived. It took her 2 weeks to start laying and then as soon as she laid a solid frame, she got superceded. I have no idea how long she had been caged/banked before I got her.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    960

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Sorry about that, Daniel. About that time my computer started misbehaving, then I had the charge cable stolen. I'll find one of the old threads I've posted before about the Laidlaw queen introduction cage and post it again here in a couple of days - I'm at the library and keep getting bumped off the net.

    You can also use the search box and type in Laidlaw cage and ASCII drawing - the best thread should show up.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    960

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    I found the thread with the ASCII drawing of the Laidlaw cage - it was titled "How to Keep a Queen Alive Ahead of hiving..." by Western Wilson on 09-07-2012 at 8:26 AM.

    The book to read about it is Harry H. Laidlaw's Contemporary Queen Rearing, available through Dadant & Sons and through Wicwas Press. There are several photos of various queen intro cages in the chapter on Mating the Queen, but the good one is the 5" x 7" x 7/8" (inside dimension) model.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,575

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Kilo,

    Your winter assignment, if you choose, is to learn how to post pictures so that we can FINALLY see this "Laidlaw cage" you have mentioned. I appreciate your efforts with the ASCII drawing, but it just doesn't work for me.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    960

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Roger, Astro, will comply. The camera has issues, but I will get back to Fry's and see about getting it operational, or just buy a dang iPhone. I even had the ww.photobucket account up and running. I do have a lot of unique equipment designs to share.

    I love beekeeping, as it is fairly low-tech, or at least to say that the technology has become somewhat mature since Lorenzo Langstroth's days. I love high-tech, too, it just isn't as reliable as my table saw. Even the terminal I'm using today takes a whole ... of a lot longer than my laptop.

    But, all the truly great threads have photo communication, so I'll do my best. Sorry it has been so long - I have a court case over some bees that were killed, I'm moving up near UC Davis for the bee program, and have been lecturing and removing bees lately, among other things. It'll get done, though.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,980

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    I'm moving up near UC Davis for the bee program,
    Moving up to the respectable part of the state? You will join those that are only a couple of hours from me. I am hoping to make a tour sometime soon and meet a lot of people on the way.
    If you are ever in Reno PM me I can meet you and give you some quick tutorials on posting pics etc.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Grayson, KY
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Could the queens be killed by laying workers and the nurse bees just start anew from what eggs are laid instead of a supercedure?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,980

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    I had laying workers attempt to rear a queen from an infertile eggs I had a total of 3 drones come from queen cells. If a hive has laying workers they will kill an introduced queen. not sure about if you introduce a virgin queen. At the vary least take care in introduction. I simply got to the point I would add frames of brood every few days for a week or more. then introduce a queen. that seemed to work the best.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,060

    Thumbs Up Re: Constant Superseding

    Big Gun, I think I read that open (read uncapped) brood release pheremones that cause the laying workers' ovaries to shrink, lessening their unwanted laying activities. Michael Bush recommends one frame of eggs and brood per week for three weeks.

    Sometimes a laying worker hive requires drastic sounding action when the frames of brood over time do not work. The quickest solution is to shake the bees out of the hive boxes and put the equipment back in its original place and let the bees sort it out. Then, you can add a queen without interference from laying workers. HTH
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,980

    Default Re: Constant Superseding

    Lee I have heard the same. I also have seen several things that lead me to believe it is the bees in a colony accepting a new queen that actually do in the old queen. This causes me to think that if the conditions are right the introduction of the queen results in all the laying workers getting turned on. Not necessarily an easy thing to do since the bees will at first kill a strange queen if they believe they already have one.

    At any rate I found the addition of brood over a week or more period of time does work.

    Next most important lesson I learned was to give the new queen plenty of time to get started. I will now give the queen at least 3 weeks to mate and get enough eggs laid for me to find them. I think I ended up getting several newly mated queens killed last year due to thinking they had gotten lost and adding a new virgin.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

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