Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

weighing hives

15K views 68 replies 12 participants last post by  Rader Sidetrack 
#1 ·
Need some help figuring out my hive weights , not sure if my method will work for actual weight or just for comparing my own hives . My hives are on a 2x6 frame which is sitting on concrete blocks . I have the three hives sitting with the bottom board hanging over the back edge about an inch , just enough so I can put the S- hook on my scale under it and lift the back of the hive about an inch off the rack . All 3 hives are the same two deep brood boxes except for hive number one has two honey supers still on so its going to be hard to compare that one .Hive number one 2 deeps and two honey supers with honey 75 pds , hive number two just 2 deeps 50 pds. and hive number three just two deeps 85 pds . There seems to be quite a difference , can anyone shed some lite on this or should I be weighing them from the side , problem is I have support pieces running in the way for side weighing .
 
#2 ·
I am surprised the hive with the honey supers is lighter than the 85 lbs one.

Ideally, if your stand is level, the back weight should be approximately half the weight. To test, place a bottom board or similar on the stand (if you have space) and a known weight (bag of dog food or similar) and see how close to the half point you are by weighing in a similar manner. If you are close, I would be worried about the lighter 2 hives as they are too light for double deeps and esp the one with the supers.
 
#4 ·
Laketrout,
I weigh mine by your method -putting the scale under the back and lifting. Then I double the reading. I never checked the accuracy but this ain't rocket science.
Charlie
11 Hives zone 5
 
#5 ·
I have such a wide range of weights was wondering whats going on , I checked it and I'm getting half my hive weight almost right on the button . So that means hive #1 is 150 pds minus the two supers and any honey ,, hive two is 100 pds and hive three is 170 pds so how do theses weights stack up for winter stores. I did notice just by feel that #2 was lite and I have been feeding it .Hive # 1 is a complete surprise I don't know why its so lite .
 
#7 ·
Laketrout it isn't rocket science but maybe 8 grade science. If you want an accurate weight you must weigh two opposing sides and add the results together. the reason is you have no idea where the weight is concentrated. It could be in the front the back or one side. I would assume it is never symmetrical and I suspect that the big difference you see from one hive to another is because it is not symmetrical. Take the time to weigh two opposing sides and then make the comparison.
 
#14 ·
If the hive was perfectly symmetrical meaning the weight was directly in the center of the hive you would see a difference between the front reading and the back reading because of the overhang. That doesn't matter because the true weight of the hive is the sum of the two readings.

Think of a bridge that has a support on both sides of the creek. If there is 2 cars on the left side and non on the right side the left support will see more of the weight of the cars then the right support. But the total weight of the bridge and the cars on it will be the sum of the weight of the two supports.
 
#13 ·
I figured out what the weight difference was with the added length using the front of the bottom board some time ago, and it is so little I don't think it matters. To check you could make a bridle that slips around under the bottom board and that would allow you to weigh the front up close to the hive, then weigh again with the added 2 inches and see if you notice a difference. There would be a lot of strain on that bottom board so make sure it would be able to handle that pinching of the bridle.
 
#15 ·
Not the average of the two readings? Somehow, taking the weight of the front and the weight of the back and adding the two to come up w/ the total weight of the hive doesn't jibe in my brain. But I'm not good at math anyway.

"jibe", I think it means balance out or make sense. "jive" is disinformation, I think.
 
#16 ·
Not the average.

Mark you can prove it to yourself with two bathroom scales. Step on one with both feet and weigh yourself. Now put one foot on one scale and the other on the other scale. The sum not the average will be your weight. If you hold a 10 pound weight in one hand and hold it out as far as you can reach one scale will be more than the other but the total will be your weight plus the weight in your hand.
 
#17 ·
But that isn't what you wrote about in your previous Post, was it? I thought you recommended weighing one end of the hive and then the other end and then adding the two together to get the total. That would be like me standing on the scale on one foot, recording the reading, and then the other foot, recording that reading, and adding the two together.
 
#18 ·
I weigh my hives by weighing one end and doubling it. I have tested the theory with a known weight on a bottom board. Weighing either end and doubling it is very near accurate. The error is insignificant. I have off set the weight to one end and weighed it too. It still comes very close to the "true weight" by doubling it.
Dave
 
#26 ·
It is not correct to say that the actual weight of a hive is the sum of the weight of the front and back weighed separately. What you get is an approximate weight, but that approximate weight will be less than the actual weight.

The problem is that when you slightly lift the end with a hook, as soon as that end is raised even slightly, some of the weight is shifted to the end of the hive not being weighed. Then when you go weigh the other end, the act of raising that end of the hive shift some of the weight onto the end that is not being weighed. Both ends are short-weighed to some degree. The amount of the shift is dependent on how high the end is lifted.

If you think about Mark B's example in post 23, you will see this concept illustrated in the extreme. Or tilt a hive body up high enough so that you can keep it tilted on edge with two fingers. Virtually all the weight has been shifted to the lower edge in this extreme example.

If you weigh each end separately by raising that end slightly with a scale, and then repeat at the other end, the total hive weight will be the sum of the two weights, plus some additional amount. What that additional amount is depends how much you tilt the hive in the act of weighing each end.
 
#33 ·
It is not correct to say that the actual weight of a hive is the sum of the weight of the front and back weighed separately. What you get is an approximate weight, but that approximate weight will be less than the actual weight.
Alright Rader - if you want to get all technical then no matter how you measure anything you ALWAYS get an approximation. Exactitude is a myth, precision is defined by margin of error. So using more or less precise measurements only results in a lower margin of error - never an EXACT measurement.

If you try to get exact enough then you invoke the Heisenber uncertainy principle which claims that the mere act of measuring something on a quantum level causes a systematic error.

But, hefting the back of a hive achieves a measurement which is sufficiently accurate within the required margin of error for practical beekeeping.

Apparently we have too much time on our hands here.
 
#28 ·
If the hive was perfectly symmetrical meaning the weight was directly in the center of the hive you would see a difference between the front reading and the back reading because of the overhang. That doesn't matter because the true weight of the hive is the sum of the two readings.

This is true so long as the "fulcrums" at the front and back are on the ends of the hive at the same place as it is weighed from. If the hive hangs over the back of the hive stand an inch or 2 that would really throw the readings off by quite a bit.

Dave is right that doubling the weight is close enough. We just heft them and know if there is enough honey in there for the winter.
 
#31 ·
Dave is right that doubling the weight is close enough.
Here is what I found after weighing the front and back - hive #1 bk 60 frt 50 =110----- hive #2 bk 50 frt 35 -85----- hive #3 bk 85 frt 70 = 155
So looking at laketrout's data in hive #2 doubling 50 would be 100 and doubling 35 would be 70, that's close enough? If I am going to take the time to weigh a hive I am going to take the time to actually find the real weight. I can't help myself.

Rader, you are picking fly poop out of pepper.

Mark in the case of the steel bar most certainly yes but the log might have more weight favoring one end. In this case like the hive you should weigh both ends.

Nothing is better than proving the concept to yourself so do as David suggested with bricks or blocks on a plank and two scales.

Laketrout, I think 155 is good, 110 is iffy and 85 might be hurting. Of course it is not the number of boxes that matters it is the size of the colony, the race of bees, the health of the colony and the weather to come that matters.
 
#29 ·
First year combs at least, get drawn out more completely towards the rear of the hives and usually make the rear at least 5 lbs heavier than the front end. If you are that close to survival critical weight that these small math errors matter, then you should be putting your mind to ways of getting feed on them. Knowing within an ounce of exact weight wont bring peace of mind if that amount is short or marginal! ;)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top