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Thread: Tim Ives Method

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    hmmm, your telling me that the use of foundation does not stop the bees swarming instinct?!??
    My own opinion is that foundation correctly used in conjunction with a flow can slow bees from swarming cos it gives them something else to do. But if there's no flow it can cause swarming cos the bees won't use it and get jammed up in the non foundation part of the hive, in that situation drawn comb would be more effective.

    But I'm not Tim he might have some totally different idea.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Honey Hive Farms,

    I like the pictures, no comment on the foundation, etc.

    NICE

    Tim Moore
    Honey Hive Farms "Saving the world one bee at a time"
    www.HoneyHiveFarms.com

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    My own opinion is that foundation correctly used in conjunction with a flow can slow bees from swarming cos it gives them something
    yup, up til they reach that population threshold and swarm off regardless the space or flow or foundation ahead of them
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Oldtimer:
    Thank you for the great picture. Please keep posting updates. I am 2-3 weeks away from our first snow, so everything is getting ready to shut down for the winter.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Nice looking! Thats a boomer.

    This winter im trying the same on a few hives, except 1-2 shallow or mediums ontop of double depps. I plan on splitting out a few 2-3 frame nucs just before swarm season starts. Also hanging swarm boxes all over the property in spring to catch the inevitable. Very interested to hear your results.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by merince View Post
    Oldtimer:
    Thank you for the great picture. Please keep posting updates. I am 2-3 weeks away from our first snow, so everything is getting ready to shut down for the winter.
    Yes that's a good idea, I'll update in a few weeks after the flow starts. I have a sneaking suspicion that one way or another despite me, they will swarm, then throw out heaps of secondary swarms, and end up with a handful of bees. But the recovery could be interesting cos the hive is choca with brood. We shall see.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    But the recovery could be interesting cos the hive is choca with brood. We shall see.
    If you weren't hung up on the Tim Ives experiment wouldn't you split?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    If you weren't hung up on the Tim Ives experiment wouldn't you split?
    Yes, Oldtimer, please share what you would do if you weren't trying out his method.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Well a hive of that size in the act of swarming, it's just about impossible to totally stop them, the only thing to do would be split it quite a few ways, if there were enough cells it would probably go to about 10 splits of 1/2 a box each, in this location (which really pumps once it gets going), the splits would still have time to build up & get a harvestable surplus this season.

    Was tempted to do that & requeen the splits later but that would have been the end of the Tim Ives hive.

    Either that or take heaps of packages off it till there were barely enough bees left to keep the brood warm, although they could still recover from that & possibly get a swarm out before the main flow.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Swarming response is under negative control. QMP (Queen Mandibular Pheromone) represses swarming. The QM is spread throughout the hive by worker to worker transfer. If the QM concentration drops, the bees will form swarm cells (and let them mature). Swarming happens in crowded hives because the titer of QM is exhausted by sheer numbers of nurse bees. The same very simple negative control phenomenon pushes the formation of emergency queens cells when a hive goes queenless or the queen loses vigor.

    If the brood and attendants is tunneling through a high tower, but the winter bee numbers are within normal expectation, I don't see swarming. If the brood expands into several levels and the nurse population spikes, the end of bottom bar swarm cells appear and mature.

    Ives' bees are described as "runny" - with the black bee / African / feral wildness. It may be the "runniness" helps suppress swarming by speeding the QM transfer up and down the tower, while the more domestic bees are very quiescent and stable covering brood.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    There is another way to put a tower hive together given that the one you have is in swarm mode.

    Just before your main flow, you can put one together with 15 to 20 frames of brood.

    That way, you can at least see if the tower hive configuration gives you a better honey yield than an equivalent number of regular hives.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Well it's not too much of an issue WLC I have several hives being run this way, plus this one even if it swarms itself out, is likely to make a big recovery in time to get a crop.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by JWChesnut View Post
    Swarming response is under negative control. QMP (Queen Mandibular Pheromone) represses swarming. The QM is spread throughout the hive by worker to worker transfer. If the QM concentration drops, the bees will form swarm cells (and let them mature). Swarming happens in crowded hives because the titer of QM is exhausted by sheer numbers of nurse bees. The same very simple negative control phenomenon pushes the formation of emergency queens cells when a hive goes queenless or the queen loses vigor.
    Well that's interesting, I wonder if that means a "swarm suppressant" chemical could be made and marketed, that boosts levels of queen pheromone in the hive?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Well that's interesting, I wonder if that means a "swarm suppressant" chemical could be made and marketed, that boosts levels of queen pheromone in the hive?
    Why not? Any chemical can be derived to approximate any pheromone for anything. What can't be done is control the side affects.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Oh sorry Ace I didn't quite make my meaning clear in response to WLC I was talking about the need to construct another Tim Ives hive, I don't think it will be necessary.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Well that's interesting, I wonder if that means a "swarm suppressant" chemical could be made and marketed, that boosts levels of queen pheromone in the hive?
    QMP consists of 5 major compounds. Note that 3 of these are similar. Papers have established that mated queens produce the metabolized versions of 9ODA -- which allows workers to distinguish mated from virgin queens. Since alcohol infusions of spent queens are essentially QMP --- you could test using that to see if adding "queen juice" to a hive would suppress swarming by increasing the QMP concentration. These compounds have been synthesized and used in research on bee behavior, they do suppress queen cell formation.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    OT, now you know why I use 7 mediums and not 3 (which 2 deeps is equal to). Also can't use foundation only, drawn comb is needed also to entice hoarding behavior.
    3 deep, New box, drawn, new , drawn, new, drawn, drawn.

    Make note of this date, ALL surplus boxes needed to be on 3 weeks prior.

    How much difference in population is this hive vs 2 deep hives?

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Keep us posted on your results Oldtimer. I'm not familier with the Tim Ives method, but will need some options for dealing with very large hives. Curious to see how big these hives would get in one season, I've ended up with 33 hives that are four deeps high or taller. It is fall here in my area, and as you can see, I am starting my winter preperations.
    All of these hives are second or third year colonies, 2012 or 2013 queens by natural supercedure. I havn't gotten into them for a long time due to their size. Finding the queen now would be impossible.
    No swarming this year due to aggressive checkerboarding well before the flow with empty drawn comb on rite cell foundation, (thank you Walt). All are so freekin heavy I can't begin to lift one side. Surely next spring, I will have to deal with these in some mannor and I'd better not wait too long to do it.





    Since I am overwintering 40+ premium queens in their mating nucs, I will have the queens and resources to make early nucs if all goes well.

    I'll be looking up Tim's method of tower hives. Looks interesting.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mille...56954971040510
    Last edited by Lauri; 10-06-2013 at 07:23 AM.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Like the bullet holes.

    Although it could give the wrong kind of folks ideas.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Make note of which date Tim?

    Re comparative population with the 2 brood box hives, the Tim Ives hives have a lot more bees. But this site is terrible for early build up followed by swarming so all hives except the Tim Ives hives have had a 4 lb package each taken off them and then a month later a couple of nucs each, to slam them pretty hard to try to prevent swarming. Even with that they are still stronger than I would have preferred as at yesterday.

    However I like this site cos I need early build up cos that's what I do, sell bees, and later in the season the bees at this site get a lot of honey even though I keep taking nucs from them throughout the season. It is one of the most productive sites I have ever seen.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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