That's interesting JWChestnut.

And thanks Tim that makes a lot of sense. So essentially I didn't get enough supers on them in time.

There is still an issue here though, with the dearth atm if I added more supers containing foundation they just don't draw it at this time and so reluctant to move in. If there was a flow it would be a different ball game.

So looks like I've screwed up the Tim Ives experiment for this season. Next season I may give it another shot but I'll do what you say & get a whole heap more supers on them earlier, if it's possible to get them drawing some of those boxes during the willow flow it may get them spread through the bigger hive earlier and have a shot at working.

Your advice re shook swarming & redistributing sounds pretty good also. However I'm selling a lot of singles atm I may just break these big swarmy ones down to singles & flick them off, try your method again, but better, next season.