Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 105

Thread: Tim Ives Method

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,167

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    I am also interested in the details of the Tim Ives method.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Oh, you ,mean 3 weeks prior to the flow? If so there is till time, what configuration would you suggest using just deeps?

    Do you give them upper entrances?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,167

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    LOL Michael.

    To stop them leaving? Well it was pretty Mickey Mouse cos I was trying to stay consistent with what I understand of Tim Ives, but did what I had too which was pull it down and put all brood (which was spread through all 5 boxes) to the bottom, killed all cells I could find, put a box of foundation on & then the honey boxes, also with a smattering of brood, on top of that. So now it's 6 deeps packed with bees and the flow has not even started yet. Stopped them swarming for now but not sure how long it will work. I suspect Tim would have split them using existing swarm cells, but I didn't do that cos I don't want to breed from this particular bee.

    Thinking they'll probably swarm in the next couple weeks anyway but I'll leave it & see what happens out of interest.
    I would suggest you remove the existing queen to a box of her own. And prevent these bees from making a queen. this sounds exactly like what I did last spring with a method similar to all this and they swarmed leaving the parent colony queenless.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Then why suggest I do it LOL?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    OT:

    Given what you've just written, I think that you could easily come up with frames of brood to put together tower hives for honey production, at will.

    But, I don't think that Tim's methods really apply, or are even necessary, in your situation.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Yes I could just build one, then that wouldn't be the same as one that has the dynamics of a hive that has come through winter.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,167

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    yup, up til they reach that population threshold and swarm off regardless the space or flow or foundation ahead of them
    Ian, So are you saying that bees will swarm if a certain population is reached?
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Yes I could just build one, then that wouldn't be the same as one that has the dynamics of a hive that has come through winter.
    Dynamics is the right word. Tim overwinters strong colonies. At the first pollen/nectar flow, he's in there managing for swarming and the buildup.

    So, he's putting in empty drawn and undrawn frames to prevent swarming and to deplete wax builders. And, he's doing it early. At least that's my understanding of what how he does it.

    I'm not sure how you're going to deal with that gap after your willow flow though.

    As for tower hives, I think that it would be interesting to see if a 3 deep tower hive can actually out produce 3 single deeps.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,541

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    My own opinion is that foundation correctly used in conjunction with a flow can slow bees from swarming cos it gives them something else to do.
    Yes, if correctly used. When I expand my nucleus colonies up into a second story, I add foundation in the top box. But, if all I do is add a box of foundation above the bees, some will ignore it...even if a flow is on...and swarm. Bees don't always recognize overhead foundation as expansion room. If I elevate one frame of brood to the divider side of the top box...replacing it with a frame of foundation...and have the foundation against it, the bees go right to work drawing it out.

    As I manage them through the flow, that foundation in the bottom box will be drawn and filled with brood...almost immediately. The foundation in the top box against the brood will be the same. If the flow is strong, the remaining foundation will be drawn quickly and filled with nectar/honey. These are replaced as needed to prevent swarming or absconding. After the flow, any undrawn foundation is replaced with comb to get ready for the fall flow.

    So that to me is the correct way to use foundation in a swarm management scheme. Just slapping a box of foundation on top of a strong cluster to stop swarming, or expand the broodnest, doesn't always go as planned.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Just for interest here's view of what's around the site, taken via my dash cam as I drive to it. You can see Manuka on the RHS of the road and also Kanuka, I have this area sewn up from the opposition so get a good crop. The Manuka has a few flowers but will not produce anything of note for another month or more, it a also varies quite a bit from one season to the other. You can also see how the area is a bit of a bee desert at the moment. BTW the date stamp is wrong it was filmed yesterday.
    CLICK to play it.


    Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-06-2013 at 07:46 AM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,167

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Then why suggest I do it LOL?
    I see where my post sort of went in a circle. What you have done sounds like what I did last spring and ended up with a completely queenless colony. I could not then get them to make a queen for quite a while.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    My favorite part about working with three deeps is how you can literally pull up the brood nest through to the top box of the 3 deep stack as you manage the frames. You can do something similar with the honey supers as well.

    It's an interesting way to learn about open brood nest configurations.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,480

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Ian, So are you saying that bees will swarm if a certain population is reached?
    Plenty of variables,
    What do you think??
    Ill keep hives with huge populations during the production season but need to closely maintain population control throughout the spring building season.
    We all can talk about how this swarming instinct can be overcome, until we actually try it, then they will swarm.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,990

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Maybe they swarmed away because they don't like the gaudy color combination of the boxes?

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,167

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    As you said, Plenty of variables. A few that i have seen put forth are.
    1. A reproductive swarm cut off by Walt. even this does not include swarming for other purposes after swarm season.
    2. Backfilling of the hive. Or lack or eduction of brood space depending on who is describing it. I am not certain if this is actually referring to two different effects or just a difference in describing that same one. Distinction would be that a hive full of nectar influences swarming while the other is a lack of brood influences it. I woudl tend toward it being brood.
    3. I have sen for myself that any brood separated from the main brood nest will tend to have queen cells built on it. Not sure what all to make of that.
    4. One final thought is that swarming is actually a combination of many factors that add p to being the colonies primary reason to exist at all. Honey production. foraging. wax building even hive building are all things the bees do to facilitate production of swarms.

    So In all my opinion at this time is that bees swarm because that is what they exist to do. everything they do is geared in one way or another to accomplish it.

    As far as population being a factor. I do not think so. Crowding maybe but not population. Otherwise how do you explain a colony of 30,000 bees swarming in comparison to a colony of 60,000 bees when in the same amount of space. I see a very long list of factors that influence it. but population would not make that list. That is why your comment about population threshold stood out to me.

    I have myself seen a colony that had enough bees in it to fill a deep and three mediums that eventually swarmed. I have also seen a hive right next to it that did not fill a deep and a med swarm.

    I understand Walt's reproductive swarm cut of. I understand the idea of pheromones influence swarming behavior. I understand the presence of brood or even the isolation of small amounts of brood influencing queen cell building. and if in fact there is a theory concerning population I am interested in the details of it.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,480

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Hahaha

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,799

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    One thing I wonder about is the distance the queen is at times from the majority of colony. Those box's near the top are a long way from her pheromones if she is residing near the bottom. Of course they won't make queen cells near the top where there is no larva, and where there is larva, there is the queen. With a top entrance, many returning foragers would have minimal if any pheromone scent. I wonder how that factors into reduced/increased swarming tendencies?

  18. #58
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,990

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    One thing I wonder about is the distance the queen is at times from the majority of colony. Those box's near the top are a long way from her pheromones if she is residing near the bottom. Of course they won't make queen cells near the top where there is no larva, and where there is larva, there is the queen. With a top entrance, many returning foragers would have minimal if any pheromone scent. I wonder how that factors into reduced/increased swarming tendencies?
    There have been plenty of skyscraper hives that do not swarm with a queen below an excluder and the bees five feet above her storing honey like mad.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    OT. Date of swarming activity of a 3 deep hive vs 2 deep system. I see a 4 week difference of triples vs doubles. 08'09'10 triples would start swarming 4-27, which got me to rethink my supering timing. 16 days to make Qcells, so I starting supering a week prior to 4-11.
    2010 I didn't have enough drawn supers to contain every hive and only used 4. One new with 3 drawn above. They filled all 4 and still went into swarm mode.
    2011 I increased to 10 supers and checker boarded supers. By the second week of June,all supered hives averaged 7 supers filled. Extracted everything and put back on asap.
    Past 2 years dropped back to 7 supers, got flow timing down and took capped supers quicker.
    Do so dramatically reduced swarming, a swarmed hive doesn't put up 7 supers by the second week of June.

    Since that hive of yours is set into swarm mode and you don't want to split it. I would take the opportunity of shook swarm that hive unto 3 brand new deeps. That population will draw them out quickly. Equalize brood and resources to 3 other hives and add 3-4 drawn deeps to them. 2 weeks after shook swarm add 3-4 drawn, otherwise you'll be doing it again.....

    Nice looking hive OT, don't let it in the tree's.

    Tim Ives

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morro Bay, California, USA
    Posts
    961

    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    The research on QMP shows that forager age bees lose behavioral response to QMP. The forager age class does not make the decision to form swarm cells and allow them to mature, that decision is made by the nurse age class.
    The implication is that a double (upper-lower) entrance hive might reduce the crowding impact on QMP by physically separating the two activities (brooding and honey storage).

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads