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Thread: Tim Ives Method

  1. #1
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    Default Tim Ives Method

    Trying it on a few hives so thought I'd start a thread on it.

    Thought that keeping the hives big and no excluder was supposed to prevent swarming but went to a yard today and found this. Had seconds, literally, to stop them leaving. It's spring here the flow has not started yet. Or at least, there has been a willow flow at this site which has finished, there is now a tiny trickle although the bees are barely pulling foundation, waiting for the main flow.

    Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-05-2013 at 05:09 AM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Never say never, eh OT?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    what did you do to stop them from leaving ot?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Had seconds, literally, to stop them leaving.
    How did you stop them? I could be all wrong on this but I think "big" is one of the criteria that encourages them to swarm.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    I don't know about Tim Ives method but I have heard that the whole expanding space up to the flow does not work if foundation is used.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    LOL Michael.

    To stop them leaving? Well it was pretty Mickey Mouse cos I was trying to stay consistent with what I understand of Tim Ives, but did what I had too which was pull it down and put all brood (which was spread through all 5 boxes) to the bottom, killed all cells I could find, put a box of foundation on & then the honey boxes, also with a smattering of brood, on top of that. So now it's 6 deeps packed with bees and the flow has not even started yet. Stopped them swarming for now but not sure how long it will work. I suspect Tim would have split them using existing swarm cells, but I didn't do that cos I don't want to breed from this particular bee.

    Thinking they'll probably swarm in the next couple weeks anyway but I'll leave it & see what happens out of interest.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Soooo whatcha gonna do about treatments?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I don't want to breed from this particular bee.
    Don't you always have the ability to kill the resulting queens? It sounds like you could have split into 6 hives and walked away.

    Jim what form of birth control were you thinking as a treatment?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    hopefully tim will chime in on this ot, but i thought he was only using three deeps with multiple medium supers over them.

    i believe he puts foundation in the first super above the deeps, which he claims keeps the queen from going up into the supers while keeping the wax makers busy to help with swarm prevention, and once this super is drawn another super with foundation is placed in the first position above the deeps.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Yes thanks for that, been doing that, only difference using deeps all the way cos I don't use mediums or have any.

    I'm thinking that to keep the queen out of the upper supers you need a flow so she'll be blocked as they draw comb by honey storage, but here ATM virtually no honey coming in it's all open for the queen to lay where she likes. Yes hoping Tim will chip in.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    understood ot. here's wishing you an awesome spring flow, cheers!
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Tim often talks about the timing involved in managing the tower hives to prevent swarming.

    It's possible that OT missed that window.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    I think you are onto it WLC, his season is very different to mine.

    In particular at some of these sites a big problem is the dearth after the willows, the willows get the bees all pumped then suddenly there's nothing, bees hanging around, so they swarm, once the main flow starts things level off. From what I read it seems like Tim has a pretty consistent flow which he can count on exactly what will happen and when, almost to the day.

    The other hives at these kind of sites I have dealt with this by taking packages and nucs off them but the Tim Ives ones I've left, didn't want to mess with them plus wanted to see if it is really true they won't swarm.

    Location is everything.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    What was in them before winter? Packed with honey?
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Soooo whatcha gonna do about treatments?
    They will be treated if needed. But I think that is a separate issue from the rest of the management which can be done the same other than box size.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    They will be treated if needed. But I think that is a separate issue from the rest of the management which can be done the same other than box size.
    Then I would suggest you rename it the "Oldtimer Variation"
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    What was in them before winter? Packed with honey?
    They were just the same as the other hives I took 4 or so deeps off them last season. But to convert them to what I understand of the Tim Ives method I gave them 3 boxes to winter in with 2 plus of those full of honey.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Then I would suggest you rename it the "Oldtimer Variation"
    True enough. It has to be the "oldtimer variation" anyway, because my flow pattern is different.

    reading Tim, he has everything worked out with perfect timing. My timing is different so I can only do the nearest approximation of his method. And that will also apply to other guys in the US doing it too. A lot of them will not get the world record crops Tim says he does.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Tim is using hybrid ferals that he hived.

    They're not really 'domestic' because they're runny, and boil up between frames etc. .

    However, there are other beekeepers who keep tower hives with 'regular' stock. They probably treat as well.

    I suppose that OT could try to see if he gets more honey out of the tower hive compared to other configurations.

    But, I don't think it's going to work once the colony has gone into swarm mode.

    The energy for a rapid buildup has been dissipated once they 'swarm'.

    That gap between the willow flow and the main flow could make the tower hive too tricky to handle.

    Hopefully, OT can figure something out to deal with it.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Tim Ives Method

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Thinking they'll probably swarm in the next couple weeks anyway but I'll leave it & see what happens out of interest.
    hmmm, your telling me that the use of foundation does not stop the bees swarming instinct?!??
    Perhaps Tim can elaborate further on how exactly he uses the foundation to stop this natural instinct.

    Nice looking hive's Oldtimer, I love that your work schedule is exactly the opposite of ours. We are just tucking away for winter here, your just getting going! Cheers
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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