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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Essex, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    Anyone else wish that Mann Lake made some 4.9 foundation based on their "pf" series of frames? I would like to try the small cell, even though the benefits are controversial but don't want to deal with flimsy plastic frames. There doesn't appear to be any alternative. I'm currently doing mostly foundationless, but it gets to be a pain when you get some wonky comb.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,341

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    Yes, that would be nice. Here's an alternative, not a good one, but an alternative nonetheless.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...120-foundation
    Regards, Barry

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,381

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I would buy them in a heartbeat. I've had good results with the PF's, but I really prefer wood frames. Plus, I think the plastic PF "frame" has too many areas for SHB to hide.
    To everything there is a season....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    305

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Yes, that would be nice. Here's an alternative, not a good one, but an alternative nonetheless.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...120-foundation
    I gave Barry's modification a try, and they worked out really well. That said, I'd love to avoid the work and just go ahead and buy plastic pf120 foundation.

    If Mann Lake offered it, I'd jump on it in an instant.

    Tony P.
    There must be a harder way to do that... let me find it for you.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    417

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I'd like to see plastic comb, instead of foundation only. Not sure if it would work, but if it would, it sure would be handy. It would save time, would save the bees' resources, would assure a more even build (no long comb in front of short comb), harder to damage, would protect against wax moths and small hive beetles, etc.

    That is, as long as the bees accept to use it. Anyone know if they tried?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Roscommon Mi USA
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I've been thinking about trying to add a thin piece of wood to the top of the plastic frame. About the size of a paint stir stick. There are some good glues out there. I'm gonna work on it this winter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Campbell, Wyoming USA
    Posts
    422

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    Why the SC? I thought pretty much all of the advantages attributed to SC foundation had been debunked? Am I wrong? I saw a pretty sweet foundation roll from glory bee supply that was 1500 which is 1K dollars cheaper then mannlake's.
    We the willing have done so much with so little for so long we can now do anything with nothing

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,704

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I just use the 4.9 wax. I don't measure it drawn, I guess I should, never had any luck with pf100's, maybe I should just chop them up and put in wood frames.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Jefferson County, WA, USA
    Posts
    132

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I had good luck with the pf if they were narrowed to 1.25". If I left them standard width, I had a heck of a time getting straight uniform comb.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Laredo, Texas
    Posts
    57

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    Wait a minute. The small cell advantages are debunked....I figured the whole varroa was suspect, but what about the idea that more bees = more work not bigger bees.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    965

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    Quote Originally Posted by monrovi View Post
    I had good luck with the pf if they were narrowed to 1.25". If I left them standard width, I had a heck of a time getting straight uniform comb.
    Some of my hives draw PF straight no matter what I do.
    I narrowed some PF's and they drew a lot of brace/burr comb.

    It just depends on the bees, and what's going on when they are drawing it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,198

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I run pf105 http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...oductInfo/3/in my brood boxes{no it has not helped in the varroa area} they are no good for honey supers when I put them in the extractor they would bend. I use www-899s http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...productInfo/3/ for my honey supers and they work fine for extracting .
    Good luck .
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,083

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    We use all 4.9 pf frames in our brood boxes, haven't broken one & have close to 1000 of them.
    Dan

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SLC, UT
    Posts
    219

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    My gripe with the PF series is the comb they build on the bottom of each frame. They don't do it nearly as much with my foundationless frames. I would love to be able to buy sheets for my wood frames.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,374

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    My bees burr up the top and stick them to the frames above. It makes for a mess of ticked off bees when you go and open the hive and the frames from the bottom box lift out when you pull off the top box. I have been phasing these critters out, but I do like the 4.9 cell size. It would be nice to have just sheet foundation for this stuff.

    Every now and then, my bees also try to draw comb on the edge of the plastic topbar, between frames so they don't have to touch the plastic foundation. Very annoying.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    1,101

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I use allot of PF. I don’t like how hard it is for them to start a new one, sometimes they will do anything to keep from building on them, the bees will make the frames on each side wider or bridge comb them up. LOL but they really like to build on the top and bottoms. Empty PFs will not give the bees more room to deter them from swarming.

    I am using more and more foundationless.
    Last edited by FlowerPlanter; 10-08-2013 at 11:17 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,374

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I have switched to mostly foundationless too. I just use a strip of foundation along the top as a guide.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    417

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul McCarty View Post
    I have switched to mostly foundationless too. I just use a strip of foundation along the top as a guide.
    I was told these would break apart in an extractor?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,083

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    We extracted some foundation-less medium frames for a friend this summer. Using a Maxant radial, started out slow then ramped the speed up, no blow outs
    Dan

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,374

    Default Re: Getting Mann Lake to make 4.9 plastic

    I wire my foundationless frames.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

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