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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,526

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    roy, as you may know your father-in-law and i have become friends and have enjoyed sharing our experiences with each other. no need to ask anyone to clam up, for better or worse, that is what the forum is all about.

    matt, well stated.

    tim, welcome to beesource!

    walt, please share your production averages with us, it's o.k. to brag here.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,062

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    The thing is for it to work you have to know exactly what to do, and exactly when to do it (by the local signs) and you have to have the resources to do it. And then you have to actually do it correctly, and timely. Most of us don't have the ability/time/motivation to act that deliberately.
    Since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: "lier or a fool"

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Bologna
    Ok, I'll bite. What's bologna about Walt's statement?

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Elkton, Giles, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    1,339

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    David,
    As Dennis (bwrangler) said, the requirement for when is just "early enough." On the first test of the concept, we did the manip while home for the holidays at Christmas time. If your configuration is set up for winter, you could do it tomorrow and it would be in place in Feb. After that, Mar. through July, just maintain an empty super at the top (drawn comb through late April) It may be because I'm familiar with the system, but it sounds dirt simple to me.

    Walt

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Elkton, Giles, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    1,339

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Squarepeg,
    I have no actual data on production, so you put me in a slight strain.
    Before I get started, let me say that I neglected to say "per hive" in my response to Mr. Palmer. He obviously makes more total honey than we could imagine with our few hives. He may not believe that either, but that's his prerogative.

    My average production over the years with CB, I would estimate to be 6 to 7 shallow supers of surplus per hive. Some years more, some years less. That comes out to be about 150 lb. Sorry, I don't think in pounds. I think in supers.

    We had one year where 'main flow' was a bust. The 80 lbs we harvested was primarily that necter that was stored during buildup. Some of the local contemporaries harvested nothing.

    One year, took 2 hives to the Huntsville, AL club yard for a demonstration of CB. They made about 170 lbs. each. Supers were weighed in and out of extraction.

    John Skinner, our local extension PhD, says this is a 50 to seventy pound area. That's about what I got in the early years. But in that period, we were collecting feral bees in the spring period and taking no time to avert swarms. Maybe everybody's bees swarm here.

    Kevin, do me a favor, please. You know how to post pictures, and I think you know where to find the trailer pic. If you post it, I will add a description.

    Walt

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,526

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    is this the one walt?

    WaltWright04-Production.jpg
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
    Posts
    736

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    I followed the CB to about the letter last year on one of my hives at the house. They were slow to build and I collected them from the neighbor’s cotton wood tree on June 6th. They only used one half of the hive as if they wanted only 5 frames per box. As Walt stated earlier it was a record mild year for us as well and my log recorded record high temp of 75 F for easter and 86 on May 14th. My apple bloom was only a week early (I record most of my trees but use the Gravenstien). I pulled zero pounds from that hive and drew no new foundation (recorded). If I were MP I would have tore it down and made OW nucs out of it but they moved into the shallow with brood and were saved!
    I like the info from the German, I am going to study it a bit but right now I think I am going to do what Crazy Roland told me in Wisconsin last year.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cordova, TN, USA
    Posts
    152

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    is this the one walt?

    WaltWright04-Production.jpg
    This is freaking amazing to me! Do you have SHB where you are? How many bees are in those hives? If you have SHB how do you keep them from sliming your top supers? So many questions!!!

    Rick

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
    Posts
    495

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Quote Originally Posted by minz View Post
    I think I am going to do what Crazy Roland told me in Wisconsin last year.
    And that was?

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Elkton, Giles, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    1,339

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Not the one I had in mind, but it will do. The trailer pic had 10 colonies on it - not stacked quite that high, but it was taken 3 weeks before flow end. These two photos were taken at flow end.

    The inset colony was located in Burtonsville, Md. Was spending half-time in MD seeing to the care of my parents. The 2 hive pic were here in Elkton. Don't know if you can make out the penciled legend, but the weights were not actual. Just counted shallow supers at 20 pounds each. A plugged out, 9 frame shallow holds more than that. Used the low number to adjust for possible partials at the top. It was a 'good year' in both locations and the photos reflect above average production.

    If your system produces above average production, why be shy about it? Answer: people think you are stretching the truth and tune you out. That's what this thread is all about.

    Walt

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Elkton, Giles, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    1,339

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Would like to extend this thread long enough to get a description from Tim on his technique. He made some comment about production in the hundreds in post # 45. Am always interested in production exceeding mine.
    A story:
    A picture showed up Bee Culture, maybe 20 years ago, of a single skyscraper with 17 supers of honey in mediums. Made an appointment with the old gentleman and went over to Knoxville to meet with him. Thought I could smell nectar management in the photo. He had 2 x 4s props all the way around to keep the monster upright.

    He used an all-medium configuration before It became popular and he shuffled them in the spring to accomplish what CB does. Don't remember the details now, but it seemed more labor intensive than CB.

    That's why I would like to hear how Tim does it at the box level. We have a lot of folks using the all-medium config today.

    Walt

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
    Posts
    736

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer Jim View Post
    And that was?
    Sounded like CR did not want in advertised in a previous thread on secrets so I will not do it either. I will say it is yet one other piece of equipment for me.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Elkton, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    288

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    roy, as you may know your father-in-law and i have become friends and have enjoyed sharing our experiences with each other. no need to ask anyone to clam up, for better or worse, that is what the forum is all about.

    matt, well stated.

    tim, welcome to beesource!

    walt, please share your production averages with us, it's o.k. to brag here.
    squarepeg,

    My apologies to you and all others. Perhaps my last sentence was too harsh. In my defense, I have been a research engineer for over 20 years. We float theories all the time, it's the nature of our profession. However, you MUST use word like 'I think', 'perhaps', 'in my opinion', or something similar. If one of my colleagues were to make a statement and I hit him with a comment like 'bologna' I had better have proof in hand to back up my claim. If not, I would loose the respect of my colleagues and they would soon stop listening to my opinions.

    Roy

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Elkton, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    288

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    is this the one walt?

    WaltWright04-Production.jpg
    To clarify, the one Walt was looking for shows a red, flat bed trailer with 10 hives on it. If I remember correctly, I was standing off to one side, looking towards the tongue end of the trailer. I have a copy somewhere, but cannot seem to find it right now.

    Roy

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,526

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    no worries roy, it's nice that you have walt's back.

    regarding that photo of the trailer, i don't remember seeing it. we found the one above by walt remembering a thread that i was able to track down with the search engine.

    walt, tim ives posted this on another thread about checkerboarding at the box level:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ives View Post
    Also can't use foundation only, drawn comb is needed also to entice hoarding behavior.

    3 deep, New box, drawn, new , drawn, new, drawn, drawn.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,858

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Not really wishing to enter the fray, I'd just like to add that I follow Walt's advice on CBing and when I do what needs to be done when it should be done, my swarming is zero. It doesn't work when I don't work.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Elkton, Giles, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    1,339

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Thanks to all the supporters who chimed in. Not going back through the pages and pick them out. You know who you are. The only one that I know has been using the concepts for more than a decade is Drone On. Colleen has stayed in contact over the years.

    Would like to close out this thread leaving last word to Mr. Palmer. I have no malice toward him - we just learned different things that are in conflict. His last word was a gem.

    Walt

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,368

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    Quote Originally Posted by wcubed View Post
    Would like to close out this thread leaving last word to Mr. Palmer. I have no malice toward him - we just learned different things that are in conflict. His last word was a gem. Walt
    Word

  19. #79
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,838

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    I thought it was a deli meat personally... And I use the term meat there loosely

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    brownwood, TX, USA
    Posts
    824

    Default Re: "liar or a fool"

    This thread started out with a "baited" theme. In the middle of the thread there were some posters with beekeeping information, but the main gist of this thread has been: "my brother can beat up your brother." This thread simply brought out the supporters of two individuals.

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