Re: "lier or a fool"
wcubed says....Mike,
Am pleased that you selected later swarms as the exception that disproves the rule. I don't see that as valid.<<
What rule Walt? Please spell it out....I chose "later" swarms because you say, " One of the reasons for rejection of the concept is the appearence of other types of swarms, later." What kind of swarms are those please, if you don't mind? And what instigates these "later" swarms?
>>The academic community has been puzzled by fall swarms, forever. The fall swarm doesn't have a prayer of attaining full establishment in the remaining forage available, but I conclude that those fall swarms are normal. You just have to understand the honeybee natural instincts.<<
There you go again about the academic community who, you claim, don't understand the honeybee's natural instincts. I agree that fall swarms are "normal", and they swarm for the same reason as your "reproductive" swarms.
>>It does not surprise me that a strong pollen flow in early fall stimulates swarm ambition in their instincts. The bees have no way of knowing that the strong fall flow will end abruptly with frost/freeze.<<
So why do you think that they have any way of knowing that the earlier flows will continue? To me, what you're saying, is that they're all the same.
>>Not that it matters, but we see almost no fall swarms here in Dixie. The long midsummer dearth reduces population to a point that the colony does not have time to build to swarm strength on the fall flow.<<
Well, if you have no flow, why would you expect to see swarming?
>>May I use your exception as a "for instance" on the instinct thread?<<
Not sure how you plan on using my "exception". Use it right here Walt. Don't bury it in another thread. You say I believe there is an exception to your rule? No, that's what you're saying. I'm saying they're all the same. I see swarms from the end of the dandelion/fruit bloom, through the main flow. So do you. You checkerboard and super properly, and what does that do. It allows the bees overhead nectar storage, and eliminates the competition between brood rearing and nectar storage. You checkerboard and super, and lately I see you have added a reversal. I super and reverse and super. Both accomplish the same ends.
If the beekeeper doesn't super properly to handle the nectar flow, whether it be early season, main flow, or fall flow, swarms will issue. You claim they are different, but then say they are normal. Of course they're normal. They're all swarming for the same treason. They have no room for nectar storage, so it goes into the only comb space available...where brood has recently emerged. When nectar remains in the broodnest, and can't be moved out and up, I believe that's the main trigger for reproductive swarming. I believe backfilling is a result of limited nectar storage, not something done by the bees to instigate swarming.
>Not that it matters, but we see almost no fall swarms here in Dixie. The long midsummer dearth reduces population to a point that the colony does not have time to build to swarm strength on the fall flow.<<
Well, I would say that this supports what I am saying. Swarming is flow driven.
>>At repro c/o, the established colony must revise the workforce make-up to gather, pre-dry, extend cell depth, and cap honey. They have not needed these workers through the swarm prep period. When the workforce is restructured, they are ready to store honey at efficient rates - known in some circles as "main flow." They make these personnel changes during a two to three week period following repro c/o. Since they are not generally storing overhead during this period, we refer to it as the (storage) lull.<<
Storage lull? Here, that 2-3 week period you talk about is a dearth between dandelion/fruit bloom/brambles and the main flow. What happens when the main flow begins and there are no supers or not enough supers on the hive? Swarm preparations.
One minute you're saying your repro swarms are different from swarms that issue later in the season, and then you say the later swarms are normal.
I guess I don't understand the difference Walt. Please explain how prime swarms issuing at different flow periods are different from each other.