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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    I've seen stories lately connecting HFCS to CCD. Natural honey supports a colony's immune system, but replacing it with GMO-based corn syrup just adds insult to injury, lowering their defences against the pesticide cocktail they bring in with the pollen. I'm sticking to honey food stores in the winter for now. Let's see how I do.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    82

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?



    The above video is from the fall.

    This is the link to the report on the spring deaths.

    Samples of dead bees were collected for pesticide residue analysis along with live bees, comb with pollen and honey stores, vegetation, water, and soil

    Preliminary residue results show that approximately 75% of the dead bee samples had detectable residues of neonicotinoid insecticides used to treat corn and soybeanseed

    Residues of neonicotinoid insecticides were detected in samples from approximately 80% of the beekeepers for which samples have been analyzed.
    Clothianidin and/or thiamethoxam were detected in > 90% of the comb pollen samples from affected yards and were also detected in some water, soil, and comb honey samples.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lee\'s Summit, MO
    Posts
    1,260

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Detectable amounts, okay. What are the actual amounts? Are they lethal or sub-lethal? What is the lethal amount? We all have various amounts of things in detectable amounts in our systems too. Yep, we'll all die no matter what. Will any of those sub-lethal things be directly responsible for our deaths? Nope, they're sub-lethal. Combined will they contribute to our deaths? Possibly but doubtful. Until it's proven in a repeatable, scientifically accepted manner I'm going to go enjoy my life and leave the worrying and teeth gnashing to others.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,425

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Sub lethal means it won't kill you now it does not mean it won't shorten your live by 10 or more years. Now in a bees life does it make a difference to a hive if the bees life is shortened by a few weeks?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,593

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Now in a bees life does it make a difference to a hive if the bees life is shortened by a few weeks?

    Really Acebird?

    You don't believe that reducing the bees lifespan by "a few weeks" would have an impact on the colony? Really?

    A few weeks in the summer would be 50% of their life....

    A few weeks off the lives of winter bees and there's chilled brood and or a dead colony.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,492

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Sarcasm is hard to see in written text. But that's how I read his writing that statement. Sarcastically.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lee\'s Summit, MO
    Posts
    1,260

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Prove it! Until claims or hunches can be proven, they aren't worth the powder to blow them to heck in the scientific or legal world (in the US). That's why no one has been able to legally pin this on Big Ag here. There are teams of US environmental lawyers salivating for this to gain traction and earn billions in judgments, ...but it doesn't. It can't be proven (except for dust drift exposure during improper planting). In the US it's "innocent until proven guilty."

    That's when those with that axe to grind turn to trying to influencing public perception and toss out innuendos and 1/2 truths hoping to fool the majority who swallow it as a know truth. They in turn spout it as truth and the perception spreads. (I love setting the record straight when people assume because I'm a beekeeper I buy the neonic hype.) Actual truth is secondary in this scenario, that and "guilty until proven innocent" is how Europe ended up with a 2 year exploratory ban. They are exploring it because they don't know what it will actually do, and the door is open to bring the product(s) back .
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
    Posts
    290

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    We're not talking about people here. Remember DDT? When you're talking about poisons, it should be "guilty until proven innocent". They should have to prove that they are entirely safe BEFORE they are allowed to be used.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,968

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPBsbees View Post
    They should have to prove that they are entirely safe BEFORE they are allowed to be used.
    Well, many things are poisonous in some manner. For instance, "soap" is a poison if you ingest the wrong amount. Are you proposing that soap be illegal?

    Too much water is not very healthy either!



    As the saying goes, "The devil is in the details!"

    Note that food grade mineral oil, has another name, i.e. horticultural oil. And guess what, horticultural oil is used to kill all manner of insects in agricultural settings. It will kill bees as well.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lee\'s Summit, MO
    Posts
    1,260

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPBsbees View Post
    We're not talking about people here. Remember DDT? When you're talking about poisons, it should be "guilty until proven innocent".
    But it's not and the products passed the regulations they were required to. They've therefor earned "innocent until proven guilty" status. Define "entirely" safe, and for what and whom? It's an insecticide so it can't be entirely safe to everything. Watch out for the DDT claim. It's wasn't banned in India and many other countries. Heck, they're still using it today and there's been no decimation of their raptor species.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,425

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    Heck, they're still using it today and there's been no decimation of their raptor species.
    And you can prove that.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    82

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    Detectable amounts, okay. What are the actual amounts?
    From the report linked above:



    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    Are they lethal or sub-lethal? What is the lethal amount?
    Good question. How much of this stuff in your pollen/honey/soil/water would you consider safe? When it was approved, was it based on an understanding that the chemical would remain under a certain level in pollen/honey/soil/water?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,031

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    We do know that neonics are acting as environmental contaminants. We're also learning more and more about how they're impacting bees.

    Bees are considered to be both a keystone and an indicator species by many.

    Dave Mendes said that Honeybees are indicators of environmental quality, and I agree.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,127

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Just returning today from the UK. The agricultural fields here are 25% rape. Average honey crop in the rape area is measured in hundreds of pounds, with many colonies at 300. No CCD. Why??

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,492

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Welcome Home Michael.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,425

    Default Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Just returning today from the UK. The agricultural fields here are 25% rape.
    Just to be clear "here" is the US or UK?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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