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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,774

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Your mistaken Glen... you can't copy it even for your own use.
    No he is not. You can copy any patented product until your hearts content for your own use. You cannot make money off it. The workings have to be completely divulged so copying it would not be hard to do.

    I believe you file, you wait, then there is a review, then it might get patent pending. Now it gets expensive, and you wait some more. Three years down the road you might get it patented but during such time it will have evolved so you better have written up the application such that all the mods would be covered.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,335

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    No he is not. You can copy any patented product until your hearts content for your own use. You cannot make money off it. The workings have to be completely divulged so copying it would not be hard to do.
    Once again, Ace seems to have a different opinion than many.

    The rights granted by a patent

    Commercial and noncommercial use

    In most European countries, the exclusive exploitation rights granted by a patent are restricted to commercial exploitation. A private person who builds the patented invention in his own home for his own personal goals cannot infringe on a patent. The reasoning behind this is that such a situation cannot harm the patent holder.

    US law is more strict. It forbids anyone from making, using or selling the invention, even when the use is strictly personal. Of course, since patent infringement lawsuits are very expensive, a private person is rarely if ever prosecuted for using the invention in his own home. Such a situation could occur when a private person offers on his website a piece of software that uses someone else's patented technology. The patent holder may feel that the freely available software threatens his commercial product, and then decide to use the patent to prevent the distribution of the free product.

    http://www.iusmentis.com/patents/crashcourse/rights/
    Of course, anyone can put their opinion on a website. You are going to have to make your own decision as to who has more credibility!




    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 09-11-2013 at 06:30 AM.
    Graham
    --- Practical reality trumps philosophy!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    I love this forum. Just because you keep bees, and read an article once about patents, that makes you an expert on them and ready/willing/able to provide LEGAL advice to others.

    But forget the attorneys in the room, you know the ones who have had patent training. They probably don't know anything about the topic.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Thanks Radar, sometimes I hate arguing... I have almost a dozen patents with my name on them.... I am Very familiar with cost timing and laws reqaurding....... But back to the beetle baffle......

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,335

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    > They probably don't know anything about the topic.

    Some of them are too busy posting about typos rolling on/in "flour" to provide patent law interpretation.

    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 09-11-2013 at 07:55 AM. Reason: edit to more apropriate "ROFL" icon!
    Graham
    --- Practical reality trumps philosophy!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Ha. Sounds about right

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Loranger, LA
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen H View Post
    First Time posting on this forum, kind of looks like he/she works for the company that makes them!?!?!

    Glen
    Thanks for the warm welcome Glen (did you catch the sarcasm? I don’t have a whopping 103 posts yet.) First time posting because I am a new beek and decided to join a forum and while browsing saw the thread. No, I do not work for the gentleman and met him as he spoke at one of our association meetings. Last night I picked one up from him and he was gracious enough to show me much more of his research as well as some of the results he had with a commercial bee keeper. The person that posted about the way it works is correct that they do not crawl over the edge. As far as flying, they do not fly inside the hive due to the limited clearance (Outside, out of the top, from the inner cover-yes). There is much more to it with things like observing beetle behavior and bee habits with the beetles. It was well thought out and the results so far have been very optimistic. The beetles down here in Louisiana are really at their peak right now, so I hope to have it in the hive this week and I believe I am going to see for myself how well we do as I expect to see a decrease in numbers. With regard to the hives being strong and controlling the beetles, maybe so, but my bees are as strong as ever right now and my beetle numbers doubled in two weeks.

    Hey look Glen, I have 2 posts now. I'm only 101 away from you now.

    Nothing personal, I'm sure you'll be a great help to me one day on here (no sarcasm in that statement, just the truth)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    277

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by ordy28 View Post
    Thanks for the warm welcome Glen (did you catch the sarcasm? I don’t have a whopping 103 posts yet.) First time posting because I am a new beek and decided to join a forum and while browsing saw the thread. No, I do not work for the gentleman and met him as he spoke at one of our association meetings. Last night I picked one up from him and he was gracious enough to show me much more of his research as well as some of the results he had with a commercial bee keeper. The person that posted about the way it works is correct that they do not crawl over the edge. As far as flying, they do not fly inside the hive due to the limited clearance (Outside, out of the top, from the inner cover-yes). There is much more to it with things like observing beetle behavior and bee habits with the beetles. It was well thought out and the results so far have been very optimistic. The beetles down here in Louisiana are really at their peak right now, so I hope to have it in the hive this week and I believe I am going to see for myself how well we do as I expect to see a decrease in numbers. With regard to the hives being strong and controlling the beetles, maybe so, but my bees are as strong as ever right now and my beetle numbers doubled in two weeks.

    Hey look Glen, I have 2 posts now. I'm only 101 away from you now.

    Nothing personal, I'm sure you'll be a great help to me one day on here (no sarcasm in that statement, just the truth)
    Well seeing as your NOT a scammer! WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!

    Glen
    You Tube bee Channel Zone 5A
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GlenGH

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Loranger, LA
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen H View Post
    Well seeing as your NOT a scammer! WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!

    Glen
    Appreciate it Glen!! Looking forward to being here.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    277

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by ordy28 View Post
    Appreciate it Glen!! Looking forward to being here.
    It will be interesting to hear how it works out, keep us informed please.


    Glen
    You Tube bee Channel Zone 5A
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GlenGH

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Grottoes, VA
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by ordy28 View Post
    Thanks for the warm welcome Glen (did you catch the sarcasm? I don’t have a whopping 103 posts yet.) First time posting because I am a new beek and decided to join a forum and while browsing saw the thread. No, I do not work for the gentleman and met him as he spoke at one of our association meetings. Last night I picked one up from him and he was gracious enough to show me much more of his research as well as some of the results he had with a commercial bee keeper. The person that posted about the way it works is correct that they do not crawl over the edge. As far as flying, they do not fly inside the hive due to the limited clearance (Outside, out of the top, from the inner cover-yes). There is much more to it with things like observing beetle behavior and bee habits with the beetles. It was well thought out and the results so far have been very optimistic. The beetles down here in Louisiana are really at their peak right now, so I hope to have it in the hive this week and I believe I am going to see for myself how well we do as I expect to see a decrease in numbers. With regard to the hives being strong and controlling the beetles, maybe so, but my bees are as strong as ever right now and my beetle numbers doubled in two weeks.

    Hey look Glen, I have 2 posts now. I'm only 101 away from you now.

    Nothing personal, I'm sure you'll be a great help to me one day on here (no sarcasm in that statement, just the truth)
    Thanks Ordy let us know what you find.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Back to the Beetle Baffle. Has anybody installed a set and does it do what it advertizes to do - keep SHBs below the barrier? It sure sounds pretty good, especially if you have a screened bottom board below the baffle.
    Started beekeeping in 2013 and having a blast with my 9 small cell hives!!

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Loranger, LA
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by barberberryfarm View Post
    Back to the Beetle Baffle. Has anybody installed a set and does it do what it advertizes to do - keep SHBs below the barrier? It sure sounds pretty good, especially if you have a screened bottom board below the baffle.
    I installed the beetle baffle as I said I would. I have only one hive, so I have no comparisons. I also did not do an 'in-depth' experiment on this, so take this for what it’s worth and that is one guy with one hive just trying something out. I don’t need to hear any lessons on controlled experiments and such. I simply installed it as the developer instructed (actually, he installed it) and I went forward. Now, I used a Freeman trap, basically an SBB with an oil tray, and that is what the baffles were installed on. That way, the beetles trapped in the bottom would be eliminated instead of perusing in and out of the bottom of my hive. I installed the baffles and the Freeman trap right after I pulled my last super off, August, so when it went in, it was a 2 deep hive slam full of bees. I had been seeing probably about 50 to 75 beetles in the top corners and throughout the inner cover and telescoping cover every time I opened the hive. After one week, I saw about the same amount. At the two week mark I saw a small reduction in the corners of the top deep, but not a crazy change. I didn't open again for two more weeks and then when I did, 4 weeks after installation, there was a definite reduction in the beetles. I saw maybe 10 total as I removed the frames and two or three in the covers. The oil tray contained about 70 to 80 dead SHB. I pulled the top deep, but did not pull the bottom deep frames to much extent, but there were one or two SHB that I saw. Now we know there are those you don't see, but the reduction was actually significant. The premise is that the baffles keep them down below, so I suspect as the weeks went on, the ones in the top either died off, or made their way south and eventually were not able to get back up around the baffles. I think some beetle blaster traps in the top would have cleaned them out sooner. Opening the hive also allows the daylight to drive the SHB south as well. I am not going to run to the masses hooping and hollering with the results, but I am a bit more than cautiously optimistic and I will be getting sets for my future hives this spring. That should really allow me to see since they will be on before the beetles get going into full swing in mid-summer. To use the Freeman trap and some beetle blasters is a good combination with the baffles, but I did not like the oil tray. Something got into that tray from the back of my hive and made a mess one night and I had a few hundred bees dead in the oil from it being pulled out, not to mention a few shiny bees that were walking around the hive entrance. I think the beetle blasters would complement the baffles for the first couple of weeks of using them, maybe wipe out as many up top ealier….. I have talked to the inventor and he did some research with just regular bottom boards and SBB and the only difference is the SHB congregating, but they still stayed out of the frames. I'll see again this coming spring. But for me, so far, so good…..

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Great reply... thanks for the update. I have ben struggling with beetles and simple cheap ways and the traps are a miserable failure so far. sounds like there might be something there to work with at least.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Thanks Ordy28!!! That's exactly what I wanted to hear as the premise sure sounded like it would work.
    Started beekeeping in 2013 and having a blast with my 9 small cell hives!!

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Your mistaken Glen... you can't copy it even for your own use.

    Patent pending is actually fairly cheap. 300 if you file on your own, I just paid 3k for an attourney to do one. But Ace is 100% right, it has to work, and fit in the price window to be worth the grief.
    It doesn't matter... it's 4 strips of sheet metal with a bend in it... They are not going to sue you for patent infringement, which is the only way to enforce a patent. If you have 10k hives, then it might be worth it. If you have 3 hives in your backyard.. The social media backlash would offset the 60 dollar profit...

    That's a large part of the reason that I haven't bothered to patent things that I have made.
    Last edited by KevinR; 12-06-2013 at 01:02 PM.
    Solo for the last 4 Years, ~60 Hives, TF + Oils.
    http://tradingwebsites4bees.com

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,774

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    That's a large part of the reason that I haven't bothered to patent things that I have made.
    Hello, Kevin faces reality. A patent gives you the right to sue nothing more. If you don't have the money to sue you got squat.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Loranger, LA
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Amazing how you guys went back on the patent thing....really??? It was about the SHB baffle...whatever.....I hope my 2 cents on my experience is informative.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Largo,Florida
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    Quote Originally Posted by ordy28 View Post
    Amazing how you guys went back on the patent thing....really??? It was about the SHB baffle...whatever.....I hope my 2 cents on my experience is informative.
    When you filter out the petty bickering and find informative posts like yours, that is the reason I joined this forum. I lost a hive to being overrun with SHB last summer. So because of your review I might try the Baffle and see if it helps.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Beetle Baffle Review

    it was ordy... Don't get lost about some of the off topic stuff... we get bored at times and get carried away.

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