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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    sqkcrk.... This thread was so interesting that I decided to go back and read about Ley Lines, Maybe that's it..

    Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 09-16-2013 at 02:59 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    The latest study from Alex Lu (Harvard) is due out this month.

    He's Randy's 'nemesis'.


  3. #23
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Michael, George HW, or George W?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    "W" He gets blamed for everything else. Why should this be different?

    cchoganjr

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    I've seen Randy post on Monsanto. I've seen him featured in a Forbes column.

    However, I've never seen him post on such a transparently partisan site like 'The Daily Caller'.

    It's like getting pregnant. You can't be just a little bit Neo-Conservative.

    The 'bump' is simply too big to hide anymore.

    Whoever did this to Randy is going to have to marry him.

    'Dubya' is the one.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    WLC... Does everyone who posts on a partisan site, have to believe everything that is on that partisan site. How does that work.

    cchoganjr

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Cleo:

    In politics, you dance with the one who brung ya.

    All kidding aside, he has to be far more selective in where he publishes, and he has to be selective in giving interviews.

    My thoughts are that he's lost control over his own message.

    As a longtime politician once asked me, "Are you sure they're your friends?"

    WLC.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    In politics, you dance with the one who brung ya..
    WLC... I would respectfully disagree with that statement, as it applies to the article at hand..

    Any time you are writing about a subject, should you only preach to your membership. No, you should seek out those with differing opinions and try to convince them. You get a larger and more diverse audience when you publish in journals who fundamentally disagree with you.

    No accomplished author would ever consent to only being published in journals where everyone agrees with him. If so, only a very few would even bother to read it, even fewer would challenge any findings or conclusions.

    In scientific studies not only the content or conclusions, should be challenged, but, methodology and control. More importantly, can the results be duplicated. I would encourage everyone to read every article with an open mind, then start sorting. Never attack some author simply because the work was published in a certain forum, or, because that forum has an unrelated stand or opinion that you disagree with.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 09-16-2013 at 07:05 PM. Reason: add info

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    There is a TED u-tube presentation from Marla Spivak ya all should check out she nails it. Spot on. Randy’s science is a bit thin really sounds like a self promoting high school paper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7iATJVCso
    I’m really not that serious

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    >Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.

    Why do I get blamed for everything!?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.

    Why do I get blamed for everything!?
    Love your book Michael
    I’m really not that serious

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Randy’s science is a bit thin really sounds like a self promoting high school paper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7iATJVCso
    If you find Randy's Science flawed then the professional response is to intellectually challenge that Science instead of disparaging the messenger. Example: I found the Science in Marla Spivak's TED presentation to be unbalanced because it failed to mention the number of honeybee colonies in the USA has actually been steady for 20 years and growing in recent years and that most beekeepers themselves do not forsee a rapidly approaching "tipping point" where the nations food supply is threatened. And with regard to the impact of neonics and monocultures on CCD, Marla failed to mention CCD hardly exists in very heavy neonic and monocultural areas like Illinois and failed to mention feral colonies appear to be doing fine in Illinois. And Marla failed to mention the prevalence of CCD has been on the decline in recent years even though neonic usage has been increasing. And while Marla's proposal to grow wildflowers everywhere sounds appealing, she left out critical details like whether it would be logistically possible and financially affordable for Society to compensate more than a handful of farmers to grow wildflower strips (instead of more food crops) on their land.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.

    Why do I get blamed for everything!?
    You're always available.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Do you find yourself frustrated after reading WLC's comments? Do you feel uncomfortable doing so? Do you read his comments anyway?

    If you do what you have always done you will experience what you have always experienced. That's what I used to do. And it often brought out in me things I did not like. So, I no longer read WLC's comments and I am a better person for it. We each have an Ignore List. Whether we use it or not is up to each of us.
    Touché..., excellent point. After dealing with a nasty alcoholic father for my entire life I finally disowned him over 10 years ago and it was truly cathartic. Even after that, on occasion I need reminding that life is simply too short to waste my time with self-absorbed energy vampires that only get their strength and enjoyment out of selfishness and making others angry or uncomfortable.

    I'd forgotten about the ignore list and it's now done. Thank you!
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Haven't you been paying attention to what has recently happened in Canada?

    Health Canada and the PMRA has found that neonic corn and soy caused honeybee losses this past season, and in addition, they've called neoinic corn and soy unsustainable.

    As we speak, they're working on solutions to the problem.

    Yes, those were field realistic concentrations of neonics that killed those bees.

    http://enewspf.com/latest-news/scien...stainable.html
    Last edited by WLC; 09-19-2013 at 01:58 PM.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Health Canada and the PMRA has found that neonic corn and soy caused honeybee losses this past season, and in addition, they've called neoinic corn and soy unsustainable.


    Yes, those were field realistic concentrations of neonics that killed those bees.

    http://enewspf.com/latest-news/scien...stainable.html
    not exactly.

    "current agricultural practices related to the use of neonicotinoid treated corn and soybean seed are not sustainable."

    (emphasis added)

    "the practices" that are not sustainable involve not controlling dust from seeding, something randy oliver has often spoken out against. the solutions are measures to control the dust.

    good for canada!
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    "The PMRA said that its own testing of dead bees in 2012 determined that the majority of the deaths were caused by exposure to the pesticides -- likely through dust generated during seed planting"

    Likely means they really aren't sure.

    Read more: http://canadaam.ctvnews.ca/health-ca...#ixzz2fNNR6mmR

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides

    Dupont-Pioneer announces neonicotinoid-free corn and soy in Canada:

    http://news.agropages.com/News/NewsDetail---10519.htm

    It only gets stranger.

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