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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,650

    Default interesting turn of events

    the Sept Bee culture on page 7 has a letter titled KILL BUGS GET FREE SEEDS written by Graham White, UK
    now I realize that there are more than one Graham White in the UK, but the one that posted here previously under the name Borderbeeman had definite ideas on ccd and the relationship to neonic's. I don't have access to the online version but found the first two paragraphs interesting.

    There is alot of misinformation and lack of understanding being circulated about the effects of neonic insecticides including imidacloprid in relation to bee health.

    Only one of OUR products, provado lawn grub killer, contains imidacloprid. the entire range of provado ultimate bug killer insecticide conatins thiacloprid which has a good bee profile.

    any bets its the same person?
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,674

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    what I wonder is what is actually motivating him....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Taylor County, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    655

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    I picked up the latest issue of Bee Culture in Tractor Supply. I wasn't planning to buy it, but what I gained by skimming was pretty disappointing. Conclusions looking for science, that kind of thing. Disappointing.

    I want to read about bees.
    Try it. What could happen?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,650

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    I went to the Bayer site to see if they had any way to get an employee list but I couldn't find any
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  5. #5

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    ...thiacloprid which has a good bee profile.
    What does that mean? Thiacloprid is a neonic. This year it killed all of my flying bees in one day. My bees got sprayed with thiacloprid in a canola field. I had it tested in two seperate and independant laboratories.

    I don't trust any labels anymore. For a reason: bad experience.

    I know there is a lot of crap written on the effects of neonics on bees - on either side of the groups pro&con neonics. Some get hysteric, some want to make their profit. In between lies the truth.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    727

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    ..... In between lies the truth.
    interesting verb there...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,466

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    < In between lies the truth.[/QUOTE]

    "In between lies, the truth." "In between, lies the truth."

    "In between [lays] the truth."

    Grammar and punctuation matters.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,119

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Wasn't Borderbeeman claiming much CCD from the neonics in Oil Seed Rape (Canola)?

    I was just in the UK for a couple weeks. OSR everywhere. I was told that 25% of tillable land was in OSR, they're making 200+lb. of honey per colony, and no CCD.

  9. #9

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    ...they're making 200+lb. of honey per colony, and no CCD.
    That is what they say. You should see it for yourself when the canola is in blossom. You would see the damage that is done to the bees, others do not. They simply don't see it.

    My canola honey was tested in a lab and a neonic was found in the honey. Also the pollen was tested in two separate and certified laboratories in two different countries and high amounts of neonics has been found in the pollen, too. Result: all foragers died on one day. Some queens failed later, one immediately. Nosema showed up on this hives.

    Another beekeeper who had bees close to the canola field, too, noticed "nothing" except that the honey harvest was "a little lower" as it should be. He had trouble with colonies collapsing in some winters, too, not knowing where it comes from. I fear a lot of beekeepers do not know what to look for. Losses are hidden. Inofficial losses are 30-50 % each year. Officially 10-30 %. Losses are hidden from other beekeepers and replaced secretely with packages from Italy, France and Spain and overseas.

    We have had 2.5 million bee colonies in 1900 in Germany and now dropped down to 500 k hives. That really says it all.

    Besides my bad grammar as a non-native English speaker (apologies for the confusion), what I was trying to point out, that awareness is not a bad thing and there is some truth in that story.

    I for myself decided not to sell honey with pesticides in it to families and kids and so, and dumped the whole lot this year after it was positively tested. Which is a lot of money for me. But I do sleep better, because I did the right thing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,314

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Can't say that would happen in the US. That honey would be sold.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,674

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post

    We have had 2.5 million bee colonies in 1900 in Germany and now dropped down to 500 k hives. That really says it all.
    Not an Accurate statement at all. Hive numbers are based a lot more on social economic factors that Canola. The pesticides your railing didn't exist in 1980... did you have 2.5 million then???

    I can't/ wont comment on the Neonics in Rapeseed...... not my area, but don't use non related stuff to fluff up your position. Thats part of the problem on both sides of the Isle...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,947

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Mr White and I share a first name, so I have an interest in his activities.

    While he hasn't graced Beesource with his posts recently, he seems to have been busy. From a document submitted in testimony before a committee of the (Great Britain) UK Parliament in March 2013:

    A Pesticide ‘Free for All’
    Since the American EPA has abandoned any pretence of enforcing pesticide label regulations, farmers can apply insecticides virtually anytime on a ‘perceived need’ basis: 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year;.
    ...
    It is hard to judge whether the bees are poisoned more, by the summer neonicotinoids which affect them in the Midwest, or if they are finally pushed over the edge in the winter, by having to eat pesticide-contaminated stores. Either way, for months on end, these bees are exposed to a repeated drip-feed of many different pesticides.
    ...
    Thus, repeated pesticide-shocks throughout the growing season trigger the collapse of brood rearing in late summer. As a result, the colony does not produce enough young worker bees and, in desperation, worn-out worker bees are retained in the hive beyond their normal residency. To the untrained eye, the colony still looks well-populated and has plenty of honey and bee-bread for the winter. But in reality, this colony of geriatric bees is doomed to collapse in mid-winter.
    http://www.publications.parliament.u...ev/668/m44.htm
    Its a long document, and the snippets above are just random paragraphs. Click the link to read it in its entirety.


    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,415

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    I think if your bees actually get sprayed it's a done deal. It's the systemic effects people are talking about, after application.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,314

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    An LD50 may not be a good measurement to go by. A variation of the PEL (Permissible Exposure Limit) would be better. I bet it would be far different for such a small creature as compared to a larger sized human, but I am no chemist. When I go out in my civilian job and enforce workplace safety, we do not enforce the LD50, we enforce much higher standards. The LD50 is self defeating. It assumes automatic contamination to begin with. It would be better to develop a PEL type limit for honeybees.
    NM desert/mountain beekeeper - Black Mesa Honeybees.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    727

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Paul -
    That is right on the money - the whole point seems to be to determine what a permissible exposure limit is for the bees. The problem here being that these poisons are meant to kill insects like bees, so the number ZERO comes to mind, but it would not kill the other targeted insects such as the Asian Citrus Psilid. We need a "magic bullet" strategy here that renders target pests harmless and does not harm pollinator insects, a tough order to fill.

  16. #16

    Default Re: interesting turn of events

    Bees in the canola field. Same procedure as last year.




    Bees in canola get a yellow mark on their head:






    Hoverflies and lots of other insects in the canola, too.

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