Beemandan - while commercial and sideline producers of organic produce may occasionally resort to Bt and other OMRI certified chemicals, there is an understanding that this represents an imbalance in the farmscape.
While producers may resort to treatment of the symptoms in order to produce a crop in the short term, there is an awareness that one must evaluate the balance of inputs/exports on the farm. Instead, seeking the CAUSE of the symptoms, and always striving to use natural balances as opposed to imposing man-made chemicals.
Let me remind you the reason you originally took a dislike to me and eventually blocked me. (although I know you still read my posts).
It was not, as you have several times claimed, anything to do with treatment / non treatment. It came from your first thread, which was primarily devoted to pushing your idea that long hives must be better because bees like to move sideways rather than vertically. At the time, you had no experience.
Thinking I was helping, I pointed out that bees prefer to move vertically, an observation based on experience. This was met with hostility and refusal to change the viewpoint you were pushing. The argument got so bad you ended up telling everyone you had blocked a certain person (me).
You want an example of pushing something with no experience? That would be one, of many. By the way, I bear no hostility over it, and have no interest in whether of not you block me, happy to chat again if you ever get over yourself. Just, you asked where you have pushed something with no experience, there is one example. Your last post in this thread was another, as keeping bees a few months is not enough time to make a call from experience about the value of mite treatments / non mite treatments.
Having said all that, we all have to start somewhere, we read what we can, and do what seems best. That's fine and the way it should be. Best I can tell, you have thus far done rather well, and researched thoroughly. You have my congratulations. But to claim you have never pushed anything without experience........
Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-05-2013 at 02:35 PM.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards
My earlier post got deleted, On this forum the "natural guys like you Solomon, (NOT MB) and preach the the natural beekeeping...... Making anyone who disagrees with your ways feel like they are not beekeepers. instead of being supportive of all and guiding, you like to preach.
Half truths, pointing out that southern queens are inferior when moved north...
Feral bees are more resistant to everything from mites to taxes....
Disparaging those who feed, or treat... as they have made some grevious error........ Fort the most part, I like your post, you actually seem to try to help..... But your constant disparaging of others and there methods grows old......... I think at times your day job is a Jehovah witness...
Like packages,,, you badmouth them like the plague,,, but fail to realize that 90% of the beekeepers out there use them.
You say southern queens are terrible... yet most Canadians use Hawaiian queens and do fantastic with them......
My original post, I respectuful disagreed with Michael on southern queens.... A good queen is a good queen be she from FLA of NY..... and a bad queen is the same. Lots of beekeepers with more experince than you and me combined have spent DECADES testing both. and found that MYTH to be malarky........
I like natural beekeeping... I do almost nothing for treatments... but not foolish enough to belive beekeeping is anywhere near natural, and that there are any wizards out there.
I have at length tested the Local vs, southern, small cell vs large cell and not fed vs fed......... while my conclusions are my own, I also realize that those who swear one way or the other are usualy wrong. If not the whole world would be buying notheren treatment free queens and nucs. truth is none of it holds up under real world scrutiny as of yet...... some locals it seems to be. working.... but funny how when "survivor stock queens are sold, the seem to be damaged in shipment. or not adapting to the local climate.
I buy queens from over a dozen places...... some in the north, some in the south.... no differences..... some are good, some are not... Feral bees tend to be the same..... some great, most marginal at best.
Reality check is needed...
That's "Jehovah's Witness." It's not a job, it's a religion. Jehovah's Witnesses have no paid clergy.
I've never claimed to be natural.
"Preach" is subjective, pejorative, and ultimately meaningless outside a church or unless one is standing on a box. I share my experience.
I've always promoted local stock, this comes from experience.
Feral bees are local or at least local long enough to swarm, therefore I promote them. My experience is that swarms survive quite well when established properly.
Disparaging those who feed? Never happened. Maybe you're thinking of Tim Ives.
Packages fail, a lot. I would like to prevent that as much as possible. Buy nucs if you must buy. That's my experience.
My last Hawaiian hive crashed so hard it left a trail of mites across the yard. Just experience.
All my southern queens died eventually. Most died before their first birthday. That's my experience.
Buy bees from wherever you want. You're not a novice nor a TF, to whom my "preachings" are directed.
That is the reality. Experience is reality.
Thats YOUR reality... 90% of the country has a different one.. which is the part you fail to mention... your living in YOUR world... fine... but the world is not flat because you say it is......
By your own admission, even your natural bees all but died off the first few years.... maybe it was your package supplier, maybe it was your beekkeeping skills back then... don't know...
Like I said, your a decent guy...... just put away the soap box. and please quit badmouthing the way most get into beekeeipng.........
Oh the other "half truth you and others like to push is the
"package queens get superceeded" You forget to mention that a package is an artificial swarm, and that almost all swarms replace there queens within 6 weeks of swarming........ funny how those details get dumped
Sorry Charlie, but you're mistaken. Sharing my experience which is my experience does not equal claiming the world is flat. Even then, disagreement or promotion or recommending against any given method does not equal disparaging people or "badmouthing". That's a fundamentally uncivil accusation. I am one of the most open and forthright users of this forum and always have been. If there's something you don't understand, all you need to do is ask. You don't need to invent my history. That's dishonest.
I share my experience, positive, negative and otherwise. That's realism. I am a treatment-free beekeeper, so that's realism in treatment-free beekeeping.
I'm not a fanatic. That's why I've never insulted anyone over their management practices. I'm also not an idiot, and I arrived at the choices I've made through research and careful deliberation. Not everyone jumps on a bandwagon because they like the way it looks and it promises to take them to some idyllic location. Some of us read the bus schedules.
I have to say, Dan, you seem to have enormous contempt for the intelligence of new beekeepers. Everything you post seems to denigrate them, unless they happen to adhere to your narrow definition of proper beekeeping.
Iif you really think TF beekeeping amounts to dumping bees in a box and allowing "nature to take her course," you really don't know enough about the subject to comment on it.
You, on the other hand, seem to have a great disdain for experienced beekeepers...unless they agree with you. Which makes it especially amazing to me that you were so quick to tell us that you have fifty years experience as an organic gardener…clearly believing that that amount of experience made your opinions more credible….at the same time convinced that experience as a beekeeper is of no consequence…or even less.
Last edited by beemandan; 09-05-2013 at 06:13 PM.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards
We're not all 'just beekeepers'.
If been able to find many scientific studies on feral 'resistant' stock in the U.S. .
I've also seen many reports of TF beekeepers successfully hiving, and propagating, those same stocks.
With continued reports of feral colonies returning to many areas, how long will it be before we can all take advantage of feral resistant stock?
Last edited by WLC; 09-05-2013 at 06:34 PM.
Perhaps this thread has run its course, given all the debate about "meaning of the word is is."
Yes, time to close another one.